British sousaphone, RJ Ward & Sons

[Orchorsol]

A big hello to all - my first post here on TubeNet.

I've always wanted a sousaphone - I ran into one by chance recently and had to buy it. It was great to find an old one with character, but even more interesting once I started discovering a few things about it. There's hardly any information about R.J. Ward & Sons on the net, but they seem to have closed in 1931 so it's at least that old. It's quite the beast with a 28" bell.

Anyone have any information, observations etc?

I'm a complete novice, a lapsed trombone player - I found a great repair man who plays sousaphone himself and due to his holidays and workload I won't get it back for a few weeks. He reckons it only needs a few minor leaks fixing and the missing button and screws finding or making up. When I told him I play brass but have never played valves, he told me to get hold of a Bb euphonium to start with - luckily I'd picked up an 1883 Besson a couple of months ago for next to nothing so I'm practicing that at present. Serendipity all the way!

Andy

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[imperialbari]

Congratulations!

Only the 2nd Ward instrument I ever saw documented. The other one is my own Eb high flugelhorn.

Klaus

[imperialbari]

The fake tubing for the shoulder support is a quite unique trait for a BBb sousaphone.

[TubaKen]

The color between the first and second pics is completely different. The second one looks like red brass. The first looks pretty standard.
Which is accurate?

[Orchorsol]

Glad you posted here (I'm guessing you saw my comment?)!

Yes, thanks!

[Orchorsol]

The color between the first and second pics is completely different. The second one looks like red brass. The first looks pretty standard.
Which is accurate?

Yes, poor photos, one on a phone and the other on a cheap old digital camera. From memory the colour is somewhere between the two but I won't have it back from the tech for a few weeks yet.

[Orchorsol]

Thanks for the welcome Klaus! It's nice to say hello to a few people.

Despite knowing nothing previously about sousaphones, I did notice that the shoulder support tubing was only structural, and when looking at hundreds of images on Google searches I couldn't find anything similar. Maybe it won't be very comfortable (!) but I'm looking forward to going through the pain barrier I read about here on TubeNet - I think!

You can see from the photos it has some white corrosive deposits and blotches. Whilst in a romantic sense I'd like to preserve its patina, I think I'm going to need to clean it thoroughly. Reading a few other threads on here I'm inclined to start with white vinegar and then Blitz cloth/domestic metal polish when I get the instrument back, does that seem a good way to go?

[imperialbari]

To me the white spots look like left-overs of Brasso or another polish agent. I would clean these off to make sure there is no corrosive activity, but otherwise the patina preserves the mass of metal well. It also gives that historic touch to the instrument. But if you are a masochist, just polish it all over. That will be a frequently returning joy.

You may spread the pressure on your shoulder by rolling a towel around the fake tubing.

There is an interesting aspect to the history of sousaphones in the UK. The many WWI military bands used a large number of British made helicons. When the bands were demobilized, many of the helicons were converted into sousaphones to fill a demand for bass instruments in the many dance bands of the pre-amplification era. The Paxman company had these conversions as their first area of business. Horn making started much later.

Your sousaphone could be one of these. 28" isn't the widest bell known, but it is well over the standard of 26".

Klaus

[edsel585960]

Welcome to the forum. That is a cool old horn and one BIG bell. Good luck with it. Dan

[Orchorsol]

Welcome to the forum. That is a cool old horn and one BIG bell. Good luck with it. Dan

Thanks for the welcome Dan!

[Orchorsol]

There is an interesting aspect to the history of sousaphones in the UK. The many WWI military bands used a large number of British made helicons. When the bands were demobilized, many of the helicons were converted into sousaphones to fill a demand for bass instruments in the many dance bands of the pre-amplification era. The Paxman company had these conversions as their first area of business. Horn making started much later.

Thanks again Klaus. That makes a lot of sense, and is fascinating! The bell looks to be made of a different brass and/or still retains a slight trace of lacquer which is absent on the body.

Several of the white spots are hard and crusty, and a quick attempt to clean them off with white vinegar did nothing to lessen or remove them. My repair tech is going to check there's no serious corrosion underneath. If I have to end up cleaning it thoroughly, I'd hope that would be a one-off and to let it patinate again afterwards ideally.

[imperialbari]

I have no experience with very old, like several decades old, white crusts. The worst ones have been with dried-up slide cream on trombone slide. With all white crusts my first remedy has been a soaking of the crust with thin petrol-based valve oil or with sewing-machine oil. Then I have tried to rub off the crust with a tightly woven cotton cloth, the same type I use for cleaning trombone slides. It often has been necessary to reapply oil during the process, and so far I always have been able to remove the crust.

Klaus