Valve oil on stainless steel pistons

[Rick F]

That picture shared above of a 2nd valve slide looks similar to my slide. Even with Yamaha synthetic I started getting that buildup in my M5050. It wasn't as much buildup as with Hetmans, but there still was buildup. Enough buildup that I noticed a difference in tone between 1-2 fingering and 3 fingering.

Two weeks ago I switched to Blue Juice. So far it's working well for me, but it's only been two weeks.

[Rick F]

Update...

I've been using Blue Juice now for three weeks. It's been working fine with good valve action (no staining of SS valves either). Last week I took out my valves to clean them like I normally do each month. I wiped them down and inserted a "Brass Saver" lead-pipe brush into the valve casings and valve ports. I was happy to see no buildup of yellow stuff. There is a chemical smell when using the Blue Juice, but thankfully I don't smell it while playing.

[iiipopes]

I also have some issues with number two. Hetman's number two, that is. Actually, all Hetman's oils. Don't get me wrong, I like them as lubricants and plan to empty the bottles I have (a stash of number 2, 11, 14 & 15 for various uses and different horns, trombones etc.). I have read on this forum that it might be reason to try some other brand if one has this problem, for instance Yamaha syntetic oils, so that's what I plan to do.

No trouble inside the valve casings - but white gunk all over the inside of the horn(s). On the picture, about two weeks of daily practise since last wash. Bon appetit, guys!

Perfect photographic evidence as to why Hetmans should never be used on anything.

[Levaix]

A brand that has fallen out of favor, but has served me well since I started playing brass over forty years ago: Roche-Thomas. It is a conventional oil that does not have any of the drawbacks that others have, especially Hetmans.

I have NEVER had any problem with sludge, gunk, incompatibility with any tuning slide lubricant, or frozen valves EVER, and I have the best valve performance you can get. I have used it on literally hundreds of horns from 5th grade trumpet onward, both on piston valves and down the leadpipe to seal rotors when they dry out from lack of use, and it always performs, does not dilute down, and lasts as long or longer than any other valve oil. Period.

+1. The only stuff I've found that I prefer more is La Tromba T2. They both work very well, but T2 seems to last longer. (On my flugabone I use Hetman Classic because the valves are worn down.)

EDIT: This Tech Oil stuff seems interesting. I might have to try it out when I run short on T2.

[PaulMaybery]

After so much time, the following chemistry idea came to me regarding the scum build up from certain valve lubricants. I hate to call all of them oils - synthetic and all that. But there is a correlation.
I had just made some homemade mayonnaise and it dawned on me. "Emulsion."
An emulsion such as mayonnaise is is the product of mixing a fat or oil, an acid(lemon juice or vinegar, and a protein such as egg. The result is a white creamy product. Pretty much what I was finding on my valves and the ends of tuning slides.
Certainly the turbulence of mashing the valves up and down with very close tolerances, acid mouth moisture with attending food protein and the oily subtance, could in effect create a mayonnaise-like emulsion-like scum.
Just a wild theory.
Paul "who even in his sleep is looking for answers" Maybery

[Michael Bush]

After so much time, the following chemistry idea came to me regarding the scum build up from certain valve lubricants. I hate to call all of them oils - synthetic and all that. But there is a correlation.
I had just made some homemade mayonnaise and it dawned on me. "Emulsion."
An emulsion such as mayonnaise is is the product of mixing a fat or oil, an acid(lemon juice or vinegar, and a protein such as egg. The result is a white creamy product. Pretty much what I was finding on my valves and the ends of tuning slides.
Certainly the turbulence of mashing the valves up and down with very close tolerances, acid mouth moisture with attending food protein and the oily subtance, could in effect create a mayonnaise-like emulsion-like scum.
Just a wild theory.
Paul "who even in his sleep is looking for answers" Maybery

That makes an amazing amount of sense.

[Billy M.]

http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthread ... e0T7VUVhBc" target="_blank

I found this thread over on one of the other tuba/euph forums that seem to describe what the film is.

I only started researching this because I had to clean that nasty stuff out of my horn this evening and will probably, very quickly, be switching to Blue Juice or other valve oil that is less prone to causing this.

[tubasaz]

I use only Al Cass oil and use it quite often; always before playing and typically few times during a gig - and after gig I try to remember to clean valves and put Al Cass a lot. Periodically clean and wash valves/horn inside-out. I tried Hetman but didnt like. Still, with my worn-out old euphonium (non-steel valves) I use Hetman Classic while also there Al Cass oil works better to me.

[knarfman]

Slimy-appearing oil is due to a mixture of those oils with stuff that really ought to be cleaned out of those instruments...stuff that is hidden well out of view, or that has hardened and adhered to surfaces and is only visible (as white or greenish white) when those surfaces are bone-dry.

I should really stop posting this (as there obviously is little interest) but properly manufactured and undamaged valves/casings with good valve guides will work beautifully if they are (REALLY) clean, and with most any valve oil, including "pawn-shop-beginner-trumpet leftover oil", and paraffin "ultra-pure" lamp oil.

If certain brands of oils seem to "slime up" more than others, perhaps (??) those oils have more cleaning properties than some other oils, and those particular oils might possibly have a little bit of a tendency to dissolve substances (lime, slime, and filth) which (again) really should be completely removed from instruments.

This sounds right to me. I had been experiencing a lot of the Hetman gunk on my Wessex Eb (I'd bought a demo horn), even though I'd been cleaning it myself on a fairly regular basis. I had it chem cleaned a few months ago, and no gunk since.

[sliphorn]

I like Al Cass because:

1. I don't like mixing oils...ever
2. The trumpet section always has a bottle of that somewhere, just in case
3. It's cheap

It's always available!