Advice, please

[proam]

Hello,

I am a 40+ yrs trumpet player who thinks he might be interested in trying the tuba. What would you recommend as an instrument? And do you have any tips to pass along?

I have been looking at C tubas so that I can use "trumpet" fingerings (tuba music is generally in concert pitch, right?) but am adept at transposition (orchestra musician mainly) so that playing concert pitched music on a Bb instrument would not be a problem if you think I should go that route.

I bid on a nice Conn 3J on ebay recently that sold for a very good price and regret not being more aggressive. I kick myself over not purchasing a Kanstul Model 902-4C that was on ebay at what, I believe, was a very good deal. I have looked at Conn 2J, 10J, and east German Miraphone copies. (4 valves are fine with me; I have a couple of 4-valved trumpets.)

As a trumpet player, I am used to blowing resistance. I may not be able to make it past that obstacle to play tuba.

As I have aged, the trumpet has become more unfriendly to me, requiring more and more time to remain at the playing level I want to be while my free time is becoming less and less. I am finally just getting tired of it. Good-enough trumpet players are a dime a dozen while in the community bands around here, tubists are not so common. I would hope to become an asset fairly quickly.

Thanks for any advice you may want to offer.

[Three Valves]

Have you tried a few scales on a euphonium/baritone??

It may be better suited for former trumpet players (I'd think)

And outlay much more reasonable especially if your commitment is still undetermined.

[proam]

Yes, my son plays (or played) euphonium, a Yamaha 621. He has it with him away from here. I have played on it, though not seriously or extensively.

The need that I see in the little community band I play in is more for a tuba, not a euphonium. Also, it seems that one can find a reasonable tuba for around $1500 and it will pretty much hold its value.

Thanks!

[Mark]

Have you tried a few scales on a euphonium/baritone??

It may be better suited for former trumpet players (I'd think)

And outlay much more reasonable especially if your commitment is still undetermined.

I don't agree. I have met a lot of people who were thinking about learning the tuba but are leaning towards euphonium because it is smaller and they think it will be easier to play. Not so!

If you go with euphonium, you will limit your playing opportunities mostly to bands. Have you seen the euphonium parts for most band works? They are not easy. The range and technical requirements for euphonium are the most difficult of any instrument in the band.

[NCSUSousa]

My advice, if you're planning to play in a community band:
Stick with Bb. Reasons for Bb:

• You will also not have to learn the 'Concert Bb' scale if your director likes to call for that. The fingerings will be the same as they were on your Bb trumpet.
• The band will usually tune to Bb. It's easier to tune if you don't have to use any valves on the tuning note.
• Does the other tuba player (assuming there's another player) have a Bb tuba? I'd guess the answer is yes in most cases. Even if you don't have another player right now, that may change next year.

As for the instrument - You don't really need more than 3 valves (especially if you're the only one), but the 4th valve helps with intonation on notes you would normally play with 1+3 and gives you some extra range below BBb. If you've found a decent (not needing a bunch of repairs) tuba for $1500, give it a shot. If you have the choice between 2 instruments, then pick the one with the 4th valve, it will make life easier once you learn to use it.

One clarification - You should know that tuba music is always written in concert pitch here in the US. Nothing is published with transposed tuba parts. You just learn the correct fingerings for the instrument you're playing. The same music will be handed to the tuba player regardless of which pitch their instrument is built to (Bb, C, Eb or F).

[Three Valves]

Have you tried a few scales on a euphonium/baritone??

It may be better suited for former trumpet players (I'd think)

And outlay much more reasonable especially if your commitment is still undetermined.

I don't agree. I have met a lot of people who were thinking about learning the tuba but are leaning towards euphonium because it is smaller and they think it will be easier to play. Not so!

Did I say the euphonium was easier to play than the tuba??

Or possibly more suitable alternative for a former trumper player??

[edsel585960]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Olds-099-BbTuba ... 2359f7c548" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank Not too big, Not too small. Great sound for the size. Built like a tank. There are a 3 valve and 4 valve version on tubenet now also.

[scottw]

Hello,
I have been looking at C tubas so that I can use "trumpet" fingerings (tuba music is generally in concert pitch, right?) but am adept at transposition (orchestra musician mainly) so that playing concert pitched music on a Bb instrument would not be a problem if you think I should go that route.

A fallacy among other instrumentalists is that tubas in different keys: C,Bb,F, Eb---play different written parts. This is not true in the US with the exception of British- and Salvation Army-Brass Bands, who use Bb treble [trumpet] notation. For the usual community band, there is simply a "Tuba" part and everyone needs to use the fingering for their instrument. A "C" tuba will not be a better choice than would an Eb tuba because an open C on that tuba will not look at all like an open C on trumpet due to the difference in clef. On Eb tuba, an open Eb is situated on the same leger line as the open C on trumpet and many converted trumpet players find it easier to make the transition due to this visual helper, some just changing the key signature and reading trumpet fingerings. Not a great way to learn, but common. The more technical passages are the hardest to get used to as the mind reverts to what you already know best.

[Mark]

Have you tried a few scales on a euphonium/baritone??

It may be better suited for former trumpet players (I'd think)

And outlay much more reasonable especially if your commitment is still undetermined.

I don't agree. I have met a lot of people who were thinking about learning the tuba but are leaning towards euphonium because it is smaller and they think it will be easier to play. Not so!

Did I say the euphonium was easier to play than the tuba??

The OP said he was having trouble finding time to maintain his trumpet playing. He will have the same problem with the euphonium. He may not have that problem with community band tuba parts.

Or possibly more suitable alternative for a former trumper player??

The tuba would be more suitable.

[Three Valves]

The OP said he was having trouble finding time to maintain his trumpet playing. He will have the same problem with the euphonium. He may not have that problem with community band tuba parts.

The tuba would be more suitable.

I'm sure your opinion is appreciated.

I just wanted to clear up the fact that I did not say the euphonium was easier to play than the tuba.

[Donn]

If we're looking for a light gig, how about playing afterbeats on alto horn?

I've heard somewhere that eastern european brass band tuba players are sometimes retired lead trumpet players (actually more like flugelhorn.) Who would have started off as kids on some middle conical brass, Bb tenor/baritone/euphonium/whatchamacallit.

[proam]

If you go with euphonium, you will limit your playing opportunities mostly to bands. Have you seen the euphonium parts for most band works? They are not easy. The range and technical requirements for euphonium are the most difficult of any instrument in the band.

I am just looking at a community band that does not play very challenging music. But I do agree that euphonium parts are often quite wicked.

[proam]

My advice, if you're planning to play in a community band:
Stick with Bb. Reasons for Bb:

• You will also not have to learn the 'Concert Bb' scale if your director likes to call for that. The fingerings will be the same as they were on your Bb trumpet.
• The band will usually tune to Bb. It's easier to tune if you don't have to use any valves on the tuning note.
• Does the other tuba player (assuming there's another player) have a Bb tuba? I'd guess the answer is yes in most cases. Even if you don't have another player right now, that may change next year.

...
One clarification - You should know that tuba music is always written in concert pitch here in the US. Nothing is published with transposed tuba parts. You just learn the correct fingerings for the instrument you're playing. The same music will be handed to the tuba player regardless of which pitch their instrument is built to (Bb, C, Eb or F).

Believe me, I understand instrument vs music keys. While I only see Bb transposed parts in band that I play on a Bb instrument, I play C in orchestra and can pretty well sight read music pitched in A, Bb, D, Eb, E and F. I also play piccolo trumpet pitched in A reading music in C or D usually.

The group has no tuba and has not had one for a few years. A bass trombonist usually covers tuba.

[proam]

If we're looking for a light gig, how about playing afterbeats on alto horn?

I've heard somewhere that eastern european brass band tuba players are sometimes retired lead trumpet players (actually more like flugelhorn.) Who would have started off as kids on some middle conical brass, Bb tenor/baritone/euphonium/whatchamacallit.

Ha! I can play and have a horn (french horn, not alto). I do own a flugel, a 4-valve rotary mirafone, by the way. Our band is not a brass band but more of not very good high school band.

I do appreciate all the comments and advice!

[Donn]

The group has no tuba and has not had one for a few years. A bass trombonist usually covers tuba.

OK, enough said. We've been wasting time with a bunch of tangents that wouldn't have come up if people had really read your first post. NCSUSousa is right about BBb - that's the way to go, you'll get a better tuba for far less money.

The resistance thing, I don't know ... Did you perchance try the bass trombonist's horn? If so, don't sweat it - bass trombone can be like trying to play a vacuum cleaner, often far worse than tuba in this respect. But there's a range of tubas - and mouthpieces - and none of them are particularly like playing trumpet. I personally think just about anyone can do it, even trumpet players. (ha ha.) There's another benefit to the BBb scene, hardly anything you find will be difficult-to-play hot-rod gear. There's lots of love around here for US made tubas from half a century ago with valve bores around .687 in. or smaller - King, Olds, Reynolds - that make great band contrabasses, and are easy to play in tune without superhuman breath control. The only one still made is the King 2341. (The other common tuba from that era is a rather huge Conn thing with short action valves, 20J to 25J depending on the exact configuration, that might not be such a good choice.) You might also consider a sousaphone if the opportunity presents itself - they aren't the greatest to learn on, because the player behind the bell can't hear what's going on out front, and they aren't much fun sitting down, but then when you have the experience to pick out a tuba that suits you better, you'll also have a sousaphone for situations that require one.

[Three Valves]

I just wanted to clear up the fact that I did not say the euphonium was easier to play than the tuba.

If you don't say it, who will?

If I don't say it, and no one else says it, then someone has to accuse others of saying it!!

[opus37]

I maybe a lone voice here, but I think you should seriously consider an Eb tuba. The fingerlings as you look at the music are very close to trumpet. Your learning curve will thus be shorter. The Eb horns are less expensive than a Bb or a C. A good Eb will handle the music usually played in community bands. Being a little smaller, they are easier to handle.

[hup_d_dup]

As I have aged, the trumpet has become more unfriendly to me, requiring more and more time to remain at the playing level I want to be while my free time is becoming less and less. I am finally just getting tired of it. Good-enough trumpet players are a dime a dozen while in the community bands around here, tubists are not so common. I would hope to become an asset fairly quickly.

I also was a long-time trumpet player who switched to tuba (although not for the same reason) so my experience may be applicable. First, although I wouldn't say good-enough trumpet players are a dime a dozen, it certainly is true that as a tubist I am far more in demand and appreciated than I was on trumpet, and this became true even after a short time on the instrument. So that's a plus.

An important difference between the two instruments is that whereas trumpet players have to work on playing more notes faster and cleaner, tubists have to work on playing ANY notes with clean attack and good tone. Just looking at the notes on the page it may seem that the tuba parts are easy, but they are not. It takes a lot of work to sound good on a tuba and since you mention time as a consideration, tuba may not be a good solution. The concepts of breath support and articulation are the same for all brass instruments, but they manifest very differently on trumpet and tuba.

Hup

[sloan]

If you are going to be the *only* tuba in a community band, in my opinion you will need a full-size (but not over-size) BBb tuba. $1500 limits your choices, but it's not impossible. If there were an existing contrabass tuba in the band, an Eb would be a decent choice - but if you are the only one you want to be able to cover notes that *only* a contrabass can handle. There are lots of reasons to prefer BBb over C - but the most obvious one is price.

I wouldn't recommend a monster like the 20J - you will quickly grow tired of toting it around.

An *old* 2341 would work well - but I'm starting to wonder if there are now "new style" King 2341's on the used market at that price point. These need to be play tested by someone who knows how, because there is considerable variation. The good ones are very, very good...and the bad ones are horrid. In my opinion, these are the perfect size for what you want to do.

ebay can be a bit chancy. Where do you live? If you are in striking distance of a reputable shop that sells used tubas on consignment, that's your best bet.

Do you care about pistons vs. rotors? A life of playing trumpet might make pistons more familiar - on the other hand it might be good to have a different feel. You can only tell by actually playing one for awhile. If rotors are OK - the standard recommendation used to be a Miraphone 186 - sorry, I have no idea if these can be found for $1500.

And finally, repair - consider that anything you get from ebay may well require a visit to the shop; include that in your budget.

Everything else is irrelevant. Key, clef, fingerings - all can be handled by 2 weeks in the basement with a beginner's method book. Long notes (lots of them) will get you over the lack of resistance.