Home lacquer job

[Joe Baker]

I have a question about lacquering. I hope some of you repair-masters can give me a little guidance.

I have a Benge 190 trombone that I picked up for next to nothing several years ago. Plays great, but the lacquer was HORRIBLE. Orange-colored lacquer, too , so shining the bare spots didn't make it any better. So I stripped the thing, and I've been happy with that decision, since tarnish looks better than the way it looked before.

Then, a couple of months ago, I got out the Nevr-Dull and shined it up. It REALLY looked great. From 5 feet away you couldn't tell it wasn't lacquered. It had the kind of "mirror finish", after several years of tarnish was removed, that I can imagine lacquering over. I want to do just that, but the cost is prohibitive. Fair, I have no doubt, for a professional job, but more than I can justify for "prettiness". So I've about decided to take my best shot at a home lacquer job (just on the bell; I got the slide rebuilt a while back by Joe S., who used new nickel silver tubes and shot lacquer over them, so it looks GREAT). I know it's not going to look great from six inches away like it would if a pro did it; I just don't want it to be a distraction from 30+ feet away like it is now.

I can get the thing looking bright and shiny with Nevr-Dull, so that part is no problem; but I don't remember what brand of spray lacquer I've seen recommended, and I don't know how to be sure I've removed all of the Nevr-Dull residue (I've thought about running it through the dishwasher, using a couple of wire-ties to hold it in place .

So, wise ones: what advice would you give me to help me on my way? Perhaps my project is doomed to failure; I can live with that; but I have to at least try.

Thanks!

[tubarnak]

Methyl hydrate is one of the good degreasers I know and for lacquering, a cheap and, well ...OK... way of doing it it using clear spray-on lacquer for metal furniture and patio stuff found at any hardware store. If you screw up - runs, orange peel etc, methyl hydrate will dissolve the stuff so you can start over again. The only problem is that if that happens, the solvent will turn the lacquer white before actually removing it so you really have to take it ALL off and redo the whole thing.

That's what I used on really quick cheap jobs on school horns.

The best stuff would be Nicholas air-dry lacquer but I don't think it's available to the grand public, correct me if I'm wrong.

[Chuck(G)]

Plain old acetone should work pretty well as an over-the-counter degreaser--keep it away from plastic; it can cause certain plastics to craze and will dissolve others.

An aerosol spray "genuine lacquer" (not polyurethane varnish) with good application qualities (doesn't "cloud" too easily) is Nikolas 2105 (clear or gold tint). Follow instructions.


Another possibility is VHT "Genuine Lacquer" (variety of colors, including clear), but it's not as easy to apply as the Nikolas stuff and tends to cloud a bit more easily:



Both are nitrocellulose air-dry lacquers.

In my experience, a lot of metal polishes contain wax that tends to fill in little "pits" in the finish and makes the polish appear higher than it actually is. So after you've cleaned the wax off, you may find that the horn doesn't look quite as shiny as it did. If you want to bring the shine back up, you can power-buff with a soft cotton wheel and rouge (very messy) or use one of those two-part jeweler's rouge polishing cloths and elbow grease to shine the horn up a bit before lacquering.

[Dan Schultz]

Chuck (G) has good advice. I would like to add one more thing: The air-dry lacquers from Nikolas as great but spray your horn in a dry environment or wait for a day when the humidity is below 50% if you are doing it outside.

[Chuck(G)]

I forgot to mention that Ferree's carries Nikolas:

http://www.ferreestools.com/

As does Votaw:

http://www.votawtool.com/

WWBW used to carry it, but I don't think they do any longer. Same story for McMaster-Carr.

VHT can be gotten at a variety of places, including Caswell Plating:

http://www.caswellplating.com

[Joe Baker]

Thanks, everybody. I'll get some of the Nikolas lacquer, and my church has some of those two-part polishing cloths (for the handbells; my wife is the director ), so I'll use one of those. The "old" flannel might be a little tougher to come by; I guess I can use my flannel pajama pants, and just buy a new pair.

Bloke, I see the benefit of warming the brass before spraying on the lacquer, but I worry that I may lack the finesse with the torch. Is there any reason one of those heat guns you use to strip paint wouldn't work just as well?

Again, thanks to all. I'll post some before, during and after pictures when I'm done. It could be a couple of months before I actually get to it, though; my daughter graduates High School this spring, so we'll be pretty busy by the time the lacquer arrives -- and I don't want to rush it!

Thanks again!
______________________________
Joe Baker, whose horns are ALWAYS -- no matter what -- prettier than he is!

[Dan Schultz]

I guess I can use my flannel pajama pants, and just buy a new pair.

Is there any reason one of those heat guns you use to strip paint wouldn't work just as well?

Oh no NOT the 'Winnie the Pooh' jammies

The heat gun will work fine. One of the reasons the application of a little heat helps is that is tends to drive away any moisture that can cause the fresh lacquer to cloud. I also get good results putting the horn out in the sun for a while on a low humidity day.

[ThomasDodd]

wait for a day when the humidity is below 50% if you are doing it outside

Not sure about that far east in TN, but humidity that low in West TN or North MS is hard to come by in the summer.

Joe, know any one with a small body shop? They could probably help out.
There's a guy down the road from me, where I'm doing my car. If I ever decide to redo my horns, that's where I'll go. Probably get better result with an automotive sprayer than an aresol can. Any you'd have an area to spray without bugs/dust/pollen getting one it while wet.

Not sure about a source for the clear-coat though...
Maybe just an inexpensive automotive clearcoat?

Shouldn't take much. I could probably get it sprayed for $25 -$50, and just use left over clear from a previous job.

[Chuck(G)]

I completely forgot about the high-humidty back east in Nathan Bedford Forrest-land. At room temps, it's pretty close to 30-50% here year-round (i.e., when it's really wet outside, it's usually pretty chilly). Great climate for strings.

FWIW, You can build yourself a dust-free spray booth by tacking some poly sheeting to the ceiling of your work area..

[Joe Baker]

My plan is to line the room with polysheeting, then crank the AC down to meat-packing temperatures (with a hepa filter mounted over the A/C duct, to minimize dust). Once I get it down to 50 degrees or so I'll turn on the space heater and work as the room is warming, so the relative humidity should nosedive. Between that and keeping the horn warm with my heat gun I should be able to avoid condensation.

I don't know if I can stand to wait. I'll get the Nikolas ordered right away, and try to work this in before graduation.

Thanks again, everyone.
____________________________
Joe Baker, who cautions that his best work, with the best advice, will pale in comparison to that of a Bloke or an Oberloh on their WORST day.

[Rick Denney]

Between that and keeping the horn warm with my heat gun I should be able to avoid condensation.

Be careful with that heat gun. Many will produce enough heat to melt solder. If the objective (as suggested by Joe) is to get it a little over 100 degrees, I would suggest a hair dryer instead. It will move a lot more air, too, and heat up your space more effectively to help reduce humidity.

I've been contemplating this myslf, but on tubas rather than trombones. Yes, that would be much more difficult, heh, heh.

Rick "for whom dust would be the bigger problem than humidity, even with polysheeting" Denney

[Chuck(G)]

I've been contemplating this myslf, but on tubas rather than trombones. Yes, that would be much more difficult, heh, heh.

Rick "for whom dust would be the bigger problem than humidity, even with polysheeting" Denney

I'd be tempted to try some heat lamps--or you could move to Arizona...

[Joe Baker]

...you could move to Arizona...

Does Arizona have anything like this?




___________________________
Joe Baker, who turned down an excellent job offer in Phoenix 22 years ago, and has never regretted it for a second!