Looking for information on old Couesnon tuba? mouthpiece

[rascaljim]

Hey all,
Back in highschool I was given a mouthpiece by a family friend who didn't know anything about it. It is a French shaped mouthpiece with the engraving 'Couesnon Paris' and below that near the shank it has a '3' engraved. Has anyone heard of this brand? The shank seems to be pretty small so I'm not sure what type of tuba it may be for.

Just seein if there's any info out there
Jim

[windtunnel]

I also have this mouthpiece. As far as I've been able to determine, it was probably manufactured by York/Holton for Couesnon Paris c.1930s. Its a deeply funneled Helleberg-style with a European shank which has a narrower o.d.

Is yours stamped "BBb" on the lower outside shoulder?

[Bob Kolada]

Could it be for the little French tuba?

[windtunnel]

Could it be for the little French tuba?

Bob, its doubtful... its stamped "BBb" on the shoulder, and its one of the largest mouthpieces I've ever used. Here's a nearly identical, but smaller, York-branded Helleberg-style mouthpiece stamped "19"...

http://www.horn-u-copia.net/mouthpieces ... iece-2.jpg" target="_blank" target="_blank

[Bob Kolada]

Ah, but Jim didn't say his says that.

[windtunnel]

Ah, but Jim didn't say his says that.

The Couesnon mouthpiece that I have is identical to the one that Jim has. The smaller York mouthpiece that I posted was indeed manufactured by York for use on an Eb tuba.

[windtunnel]

I used to play in a community band with a gentleman who had served in the USAF Band in DC. He played on one of those and sounded great. He actually let me borrow it for a time to let a company make a copy. The copy did not turn out to be much like the original, unfortunately. The original was a fine large Helleberg style mouthpiece. I would like to have a good copy of that mouthpiece.

You're in luck. I'm having mine laser scanned and cloned. The clone will be manufactured from an advanced engineered ceramic alloy. If you want the (extremely accurate) CNC numbers to machine a clone from brass, I'll be happy to send them to you. If you're interested in a ceramic clone, keep your eye on The Mouthpiece Project - http://themouthpieceproject.wordpress.com/news/" target="_blank

[Jack Denniston]

My Cuesnon mp came with the Cuesnon Eb 3/4 I got in a trade. Underneath Cuesnon is the word Paris. It fits the tuba perfectly and is the only mp I've found that does. I'm looking for a gig bag and shoulder strap that fit this little tuba, but haven't found either yet.

[MikeW]

Can't help with the gig bag (I'd be interested if you find one) the nearest I came was a big hockey-sock or a bag for football armour, but I'm looking for a bit more protection. For the shoulder strap I just use the strap from a flight-bag, you should be able to get one in most luggage stores - just be careful the clips are steel and sturdy enough to take the weight - I broke a couple of cheapo plastic ones.

As for the mouthpiece: most of the Couesnon tubas you see for sale are the little 3/4 Eb, but there are a few Couesnon BBb tubas around. There's a video of someone playing one on U-tube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkC1deh0MzQ). My wife has the speakers this week, so I don't know what it sounds like, but it looks like a fair sized 3-banger, so the larger mouthpiece would make sense. The shank is probably the "small European" size similar to the old Boosey's and Bessons - I have that size receiver on mine, but the mouthpipe got stomped flat during its career in education, so what's on there now came off a dead bass trombone, and may not match the original.

If that's the right size, a Denis Wick tuba mouthpiece should fit; Mine plays a bit flat on a DW 3, but that may be me or the mouthpipe - a DW 4 might be less demanding. Failing that, you could get hold of a Vincent Bach (with "B" shank), or try a bass trombone mouthpiece. I'll be trying a cheap plastic Kelly bass-trombone mouthpiece next time I get my act together.

[oldpatterns]

We picked up a Couesnon Eb for my son. Does anyone know which Kelly mouthpiece will work with it? The one it came with is worn out.

Regards,

michelle

[Jack Denniston]

I looked and looked, and could not find anything that fit, so I finally asked Doug Elliott to custom make one. It works great!

[oldpatterns]

how much did it cost to make?

[Jack Denniston]

It was a while back, but as I recall it was around $200. A big investment, but it is a very high quality mouthpiece that really works well with my little Couesnon 3/4 Eb tuba. Compared with the original mouthpiece that came with the tuba, the sound is much fuller in all registers, and the lower register works a lot better with the Elliott mouthpiece.

[oldpatterns]

LOl - that is twice the cost of the instrument. We have the original mouthpiece. I'll look into getting it replated.

[Jack Denniston]

Yeah - it wasn't the most "practical" purchase I've ever made (smile), but I've felt like it was a good investment, because the horn is now so much more fun to play and sounds so much better than it did with the original mouthpiece. Of course every player and situation is different, so you may well find that replating the original mouthpiece works quite well.

[oldpatterns]

Thank you!

[Donn]

I'll look into getting it replated.

There you go, can't beat the original. As a temporary expedient, you can coat the rim with nail polish, clear or color of your choice. I have done this with the Denis Wick 5 mouthpiece I use on my Italian Eb tuba, after the plating wore through on the inside of the rim. That mouthpiece might fit yours (like any Denis Wick without an "L" after the number), at a little less cost, and apparently Wessex has something in a small shank for even less.

[oldpatterns]

Wessex has a Tuba Mouthpiece Adaptor on their British site and some mouthpieces on their British site- but not on their US site.

Any advice?

michelle

[iiipopes]

Has anyone heard of this brand?

Couesnon is most famous for their flugelhorns. Chasing the right Monopole model is for some high brass players the equivalent of chasing "York #3" for tuba players, except that there are actually a few out there to be had for the right price. In the past few months I recently put a thirty-year old quest to rest and actually was able to acquire a Couesnon flugel myself. It's not a Monopole model, but it has that, oh, so, lovely, dark, smokey, piquant, delicious, inimitable flugel sound that all the jazz greats played in the '50's and the '60's, and it is the make by which all other flugelhorns are measured and judged. (OK - mine has a "two-piece" bell instead of the "one-piece" bell that is the hallmark of the "Monopole Conservatoire model," but it was made on the same mandrels and everything else is the same, for much less cost. But I digress....)

Unfortunately, the desire for a piquant, smokey character of tone has been superceded by a desire to just simply be as dark as possible, and to me that loses the true flavor of a flugelhorn. Yes, instead of the bottomless funnel mouthpieces that are today's rage, I actually play the factory mouthpiece (I'm probably one of the very few), and the number stamping must be a "mid-size" indicator from instrument from instrument, because my factory Couesnon flugelhorn mouthpiece is also stamped with just the company name and the number 3, although it is about the same inner cup diameter as a Bach 7, not a Bach 3, and only moderately deep as modern flugelhorn mouthpieces go.

I did not get the horn and mouthpiece together. How I got the mouthpiece is a true story of serendipity, which I'll PM to anybody who is interested.

The company used to make a full line of instruments from picc to tuba, including some woodwinds, but the factory burned some decades ago, and almost everything was lost, including the serial number lists and other factory records. So there is no way to reliably date any particular horn unless you have the original sales tag and receipt, although there are those who think the two-digit number in the "pineapple" or "grenade" stamping on the bell of the Monopole models indicates the year of manufacture in the 20th century. Later, to add insult to injury, the factory remains were ransacked and most of the mandrels went missing as well, except for the famous flugelhorn mandrels. The remnants of the company were purchased by another family owned company; the old craftsmen were put back to work; and today about twenty-five people make a relatively small number of new brass instruments, including the flugelhorns, each year.

If your French is good, you can read all about the company, including both its history and current range of products, including the flugelhorns, here:
http://www.pgm-couesnon.fr/" target="_blank
You can also find numerous threads discussing the company on the various other brass and woodwind forums, such as this one:
http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/view ... p?p=820228" target="_blank

Excuse me. After all this typing and extolling the virtues of Couesnon flugelhorns, I need to go get my "fix." Let's see...it's late, it's going to be a good weekend full of paying gigs, starting tomorrow, so I think I'll play, "I Remember Clifford."