High notes on BBb Tuba

[J.c. Sherman]

At that famous spot in the "Dies irai" the two ophicleides join with the bassoons, which in 19th century musical metaphor are descriptive of witches. My take is that the ophicleides are mimicking the bassoons. In the late 1820s, there was no tuba a we know it today. But as Berlioz mentioned in his "Memoirs," 250 ophicliede players in Paris. Perhaps and exaggeration, but his point was that they were common.

PM

Actually, this was originally scored with serpent and ophicleide to mimic the Dies Irae chant in the catholic cathedrals where serpent was still commonly used. Later, ophicleides and upright serpents began to be used too (there're method books teaching this), but Berlioz never embraced the serpent and abandoned it early. However, the church learned to embrace the ophicleide, so the replacement was condoned by both, and was a perfect painting of a death service in the church for audiences.

Berlioz never let go of the ophicleide; he did use tuba from time to time (in 8' pitch), but always with the ophicleide. The ophicleide lost out to very, very good marketing. Your other observations are spot on. Cleveland Orchestra, until recently, always used a Euphonium on the first part to good effect - you can hear it well on the multitudes of Maazel/Cleveland recordings of the work.

J.c.S.

[TubaKen]

Berlioz never let go of the ophicleide; he did use tuba from time to time (in 8' pitch), but always with the ophicleide. The ophicleide lost out to very, very good marketing.

Not to get too pedantic, but I always thought Berlioz was the tuba's first real champion, and that he actually re-scored early ophicleide parts for tuba (though unhelpfully not transposing them!)

Here's a quote from his treatise on orchestration regarding the ophicleide:
The middle range, particularly when the player is not very skilled, is all too reminiscent of the sound of the serpent and the cornet. I think it is best for them not to be left exposed. There is nothing more vulgar, I would even say more monstrous and less designed to blend with the rest of the orchestra than those more or less fast passages written as solos for the middle range of the ophicleide in some modern operas. It is rather like a bull escaped from its stable and frolicking in a salon.

And on the bass tuba
The bass tuba is nowadays very widespread in the north of Germany, especially in Berlin; it has an immense advantage over all other low wind instruments. Its timbre is incomparably nobler than that of ophicleides, bombardons and serpents, and has something of the vibration of the timbre of a trombone. It is less agile than the ophicleide, but its tone is powerful and its range in the lower part is the most extensive available in the whole orchestra.

[J.c. Sherman]

Berlioz never let go of the ophicleide; he did use tuba from time to time (in 8' pitch), but always with the ophicleide. The ophicleide lost out to very, very good marketing.

Not to get too pedantic, but I always thought Berlioz was the tuba's first real champion, and that he actually re-scored early ophicleide parts for tuba (though unhelpfully not transposing them!)

Here's a quote from his treatise on orchestration regarding the ophicleide:
The middle range, particularly when the player is not very skilled, is all too reminiscent of the sound of the serpent and the cornet. I think it is best for them not to be left exposed. There is nothing more vulgar, I would even say more monstrous and less designed to blend with the rest of the orchestra than those more or less fast passages written as solos for the middle range of the ophicleide in some modern operas. It is rather like a bull escaped from its stable and frolicking in a salon.

And on the bass tuba
The bass tuba is nowadays very widespread in the north of Germany, especially in Berlin; it has an immense advantage over all other low wind instruments. Its timbre is incomparably nobler than that of ophicleides, bombardons and serpents, and has something of the vibration of the timbre of a trombone. It is less agile than the ophicleide, but its tone is powerful and its range in the lower part is the most extensive available in the whole orchestra.

I'm a big fan of pedantry.

If you look again at those quotes, you'll see a complementary component there. The tuba couldn't compete with the upper register of the ophicleide, and thus it was, especially later, scored accordingly. The tuba did/does have a more powerful and extended low register, and is scored thusly as well. But if you avoid looking at the post-mortem or other later publications of his works (especially outside of France), along with other resources (concerts he directed, letters, etc.) he used them in a complementary manner. For instance, he'd replace ophi 2 with tuba quite often when he could on earlier works; but he found it difficult when he couldn't get an ophicleide to suitably replace ophi 1 (Russian bassoons and other bass horns were not something he embraced).

Also - and I think some research could be devoted to this - he was an influential man, and what he wrote was important; so I'm not certain that there wasn't "encouragement" to print some favorable information about new instruments. True, he wasn't a fan of the ophicleide as a solo instrument (and of course did parody it in the Dies Irae in a sense); but his actual work reflects a sensibility to both instruments recognizing their unique contributions.

Bevan provides a great deal of information on the subject, and there're later works of research that I can't source at the moment. But several composers (Verdi, Berlioz, Bizet, von Suppe, etc.) realized that these two instruments were different and not interchangeable. The ophicleide gained more widespread popularity more quickly than any instrument in history; it wasn't because it sucked

And we still haven't standardized a tuba

[pigman]

BBb CC EB F

Long tones

Long tones are the only thing that will help tone or register

Get the Bell daily warmups from Colin Publications Do it, Play anything you want

[roweenie]

Sometimes keeping what's in your part a secret is good business.

+1

I'm guessing that if you had not told your conductor your intentions, he likely would not have known the difference.

[Uncle Markie]

This is a pretty tough part for someone your age, and most professionals play high parts on high horns.
They are ophicliede parts; I've seen it done professionally with two E-flat tubas (London Symphony), the american tradition used to be either euphonium or F tuba n the first part, and either CC or BBb on the second part.

The problem is not one of range so mauch as control. Most of my orchestral work was done with "pops" orchestras, and even so I always had a euphonium around for the stuff that was stupid high for the big horn. It's one thing to get the notes and another to get in-tune with dynamic control. Look at a trumpet section; they can sitting there with half a dfozen horns ready to go - playing high stuff on high horns.

Play this on euphonium (you'll need a 4-valve instrument) and be done with it.

Your conductor's ignorance is oddly refreshing...

Mark Heter