I'm 60 and I LOVE playing 6/4 CC

[barry grrr-ero]

I don't know if it qualifies as a true 6/4 tuba, but my rotary Neptune can put out some sound. It's definitely a 'learning curve' for me, but I wish I had started on a BAT much earlier in my semi-career. Yes,intonation can be a challenge. But in addition to figuring out a few alternate fingerings, I've got a T-bar tuning rod for the main slide, and a side-throw gizmo for the 2nd valve slide. I can make it work and it's a gas to play.

I still work 3 part time jobs, so I'm just playing Monday nights in the Santa Cruz City Band (in addition to the yearly S.F. Oktoberfest). I'm the only tuba and the literature is THE most challenging I've played since college and San Jose Muni Band days. After all I've been through over these 60 years (it's been a lot - I won't bore you with it), I'm very grateful to be - as another tuba player here has put it - 'back in the saddle' again. Now I'll come to my point.

I see a lot of guys giving advice to younger players to not get started on a 5/4 or 6/4 tuba. While I agree that it's best to get one's fundamentals down on a 4/4 tuba, I don't think putting off making the switch (or addition) is such a great idea for kids who may be prepared to move on. It's too easy to end up with a 'failure to launch' situation, which is somewhat part of my story. I think the same holds true for learning F (I was an Eb player for several decades - nothing wrong with that). The competition for those few jobs out there is so keen, and young people only have so much time to get up to speed. I think they need encouragement and not just, "get back in the practice room" shout-downs.

In the 1970's, there was vastly less variety and selection when it came to tubas. Heck, the Miraphone 188 hadn't even been invented yet, and 5/4 tubas didn't really exist. Now students have to wade through a daunting array of models and sizes. I think it's better that they get started in trying to find their own voice, so to speak, than to put off the process for too long a time. Just one person's opinion.

[MikeMason]

A Neptune is definitely 6/4 in my book. I used a 6/4 holton b flat for several years. It had its fun qualities, but was really too big for my purposes. Pt 6 size instrument seems to be just right.

[PaulMaybery]

Good morning - coffee is warm - and its time to take a break in the morning routine.

I was 67 when I got my BAT. ... Always wanted to know what the "mystique" was all about. It is definitely a different experience for me and one that challenges every aspect of my playing from intonation, respiration, tonguing and just the general concept of maneuvering a larger instrument. (not unlike driving a larger and more powerful motor vehicle.) All that being said, I have found that I have had to go back and readdress my fundamentals, that is after 50 years of playing, of which most were as a professional. I suppose being retired has allowed me a certain luxury of practice time and believe me I have made great efforts to examine just about every aspect of playing. Being older also means that if you want to stay competitive you need to play "smart." The ways that we used to approach things when we were younger often do not work that well anymore. Both being older and also playing a BAT require a great deal of learned efficiency. Perhaps the most important (to me) is trying to maintain consistancy in my "daily routine." It has taken a couple of years, but I have put together a system of warm up exercises that I always do first. They get me where I need to be each day and make playing much less stressful and less strenuous. When I break away from the routine I find so many bad habits creep back into my playing and the BAT simply does not respond as it should. For my purposes the routine is as such.
(I will also advocate for playing all of this material at a very slow tempo until it is "completely" mastered. Again, at this age there is no point in learning "wrong" notes. They only will rear their ugly heads when you don't want them to.
1: I play carefully through the Pares Scales. Not the entire book, but representative exercises in all the keys major and minor. (at the end of the scales I do some "altissimo scale exercises [high C to double high C) that set the chops nicely - and then followup with some pedal exercising.) 2: Snedecore Low Etudes. 3: Arban - exercises in tonguing and lip slurs. 4: Tyrell - I have a handful of not awfuly difficult exercises that I use to simply focus on embouchure shape and function along with setting the placement of the tongue. 5: Bordogni for breath control. 6: Blazevich for consistant sound and interpretation. 7: Then I am ready to address working on repertoire or the simple enjoyment of playing solo repertoire. Usually at that stage, I do a brief warmup on the F tuba to get into it's quirks. Or perhaps that day is Cimbasso day or euph or bass trombone. At my age and physical condition, I find that I can play exptremely well, when systematically warmed up. If not, "forget it." That which I find is absolutely imperative is that each exercise needs to have a purpose and a particular way in which it is performed. (I have taken considerable efforts in marking the exercises with very specific directions. That is part of the discipline that adds to cummulative improvement. In my case, I've never had very great muscle memory, so a period of focus at the begining of my playing readdresses all those little neuro pathways and synaptic connections that for me seem to go away each night and leave me with needing to make a fresh start each morning. It is great to keep coming back to that which is familiar rather than just random undirected playing. I am always surprised, (but perhaps shouldn't be) how some things I thought were impossible actually seem easy at this point.) That gives me encouragement that I can continue to learn more, improve a bit and enjoy those "senior challenges" by actually having a certain amount of success. Hence the reward. I really don't think I would have gone off the "deep end" like this at my age, if I had settled on a 3/4 tuba. The BAT has made the difference.
Paul (who once said in an earlier post -"who is trying to recapture his youth by playing better now, than he did when he did)." Maybery

[roweenie]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember someone saying that Arnold Jacobs called his 6/4 York an "old man's horn"?

I sustained severe lung damage after an accident, and I've found playing a big 6/4 (BB flat) tuba to be very therapeutic.

[Donn]

When you get older maybe you'll move up to 6/4 BBb, like I did (61.) Bona fide Big American Tuba, Holton similar to later 105.

Moment of truth will be a music festival in a couple of months that involves a fair amount of hiking around the site through crowds, with gear. I'm make it, but if I haven't figured out some better way to carry this thing, there will be some suffering for art.

[bort]

A few unordered thoughts:

-- The Neptune is absolutely a 6/4, and, it's a hell of a lot of fun to play.
-- I felt the same way about the Neptune that I briefly owned.
-- But it was never quite my sound, and it didn't fit in the trunk of my car, so I sold it.

I also thought something like "I'm glad I switched now, so I can maximize the number of years I have on the BAT." Maybe I should have kept it, maybe not... but I didn't. I ended up changing to a 5/4 tuba (one of the few "actual" 5/4 horns, in my opinion), and it has been a great move for me. The same "big ol' sound" idea but with a little more flexibility to not be overbearing, more of that rotary "zip" in the sound... and it fits in my trunk.

I do miss the nimbleness and fun of something smaller (my mind goes to a rocket of a new 186CC I tried a few years ago), I get the most enjoyment out of having something large that does most of the hard work for me. I just have to push the right buttons in the right order.

Anyway... Barry, I'm really happy for you, and glad it has worked out so well. Maybe I should give Joe a call about a Blokepiece. The fact that you didn't have to play the mouthpiece game with this tuba certainly helped you have an easier time settling in on it!

[barry grrr-ero]

Yes, Joe's combo seems to work just fine on that horn, so any problems are me and not the m.p. However, I do have a G&W Baer CC w/Euroshank coming, in titanium. The Baer is just a tad wider and shallower, but the titanium helps to take off any addition 'brightness' in sound. I used the same m.p. on my Besson 983 Eb, but with the American shank. It gave that tuba a really nice 3/4 CC type sound. Anyway, I'll try the Baer in rehearsal, once it arrives.

I should also mention that my Neptune has the smaller lead-pipe, which helps to make the low notes pop out quickly. The extreme high register is easier on the bigger lead-pipe (the piston Neptune that I had before), but I didn't get a BAT for its high register.

Thanks everyone for your input and kind words.

[bort]

Let me know what the titanium Baer is like. I once asked Ivan Giddings about the difference, and described my tuba to him (big, really dark sound, could benefit from a bit of brightness), so he suggested that the titanium would NOT be what I wanted. They are uncommon, to say the least... so I'll be curious what you have to say!

[barry grrr-ero]

I'll be glad to report, but it won't be here for another full week or so.

I just want to emphasize that at this late stage of the game, I'm just looking for enjoyment and not spend tons of time practicing (I can't!). Therefore, I look for equipment that makes things a bit easier and more efficient, but still gives me the voice I want to hear. For warm-ups, along with the usual slurred arpeggios and diatonic scales, I do a lot of slurred chromatic scales to help develop an evenness from bottom to top. At least, that's what I'm hoping to achieve. I listen to recordings of what we're playing in S.C. City Band so I'm not wasting people's time with entrance mistakes, etc. But as I said, it's all still a 'learning process' (to use a tired cliche'). It wouldn't be fun or challenging if everything was already perfect.

[Ace]

I like your post, Barry. Good for you and your 6/4 tuba. In contrast, I'm 80 and, at this stage of my life, I really prefer my 3/4 tuba. LOL

Ace

[bort]

80?! No way, that's great! No one in my family has lived to 80 (yet!)... let alone be 80 and able-bodied... and certainly not able to even entertain the possibility of playing a musical instrument. Awesome, I hope you've got a LOT more great years ahead!

(So you must be REALLY tired of Sleigh Ride, Stars and Stripes... )

[Donn]

We've got a couple in one band I play in, who are well past 80 - closer to 90, likely one who's over. Curiously, all baritone players. The thing that seems to get them first is not death or infirmity, but impaired eyesight or hearing.

[barry grrr-ero]

Joe, I just want to emphasize that the m.p. combination you put together works REALLY well on the Neptune - far better than anything else I've tried.

[bort]

Joe, I just want to emphasize that the m.p. combination you put together works REALLY well on the Neptune - far better than anything else I've tried.

What is the exact configuration you have?

[barry grrr-ero]

Oh gosh, you would ask ('cause I don't know). Let's see . . . the shank says "Symphony". I remember Joe saying that he didn't think the backbore should be too large on this. The cup says "Houser Sellmansberger Orchestra Grand". It's a fairly deep cup with a bit of rounding towards the bottom. It's not too funnel-ish. The rim says "Sellmansberger HLB2 . . . 32.6MM . . . Profound . . Houser MPC". The rim is just a tad narrower than I'm used to, but it's got a little bit of bite to it (but not Conn Helleberg 7B type sharpness). The whole mouthpiece strikes me as being a good compromise of various concepts. It's not quite a Helleberg, but it's not quite a Geib either. The Neptune gets a really nice sound with it.

Some m.p.'s you can just 'tell' from taking a quick buzz on it, and Joe's m.p. makes my ears tingle with sympathetic vibrations - or some such thing.