German Vs. American sound... Change in personal definition

[oedipoes]

' ever notice that an actual 197 tuba's bell is more more normal in appearance that the web-drawing that we've all seen so many times...??

That's because they have been made with a 460mm bell in the past, now it is 420mm.
The bigger one is like the one for sale in the picture below (no personal connection, just found this one while looking for pictures):

http://www.dhd24.com/azl/index.php?anz_id=40509640

[bort]

Are there any pictures of "real" ones (not that web-pic we've all seen) with the smaller bell...??

Someone apparently decided to Siegfried-ize the mouthpipe angle of that one
(and yes, I'm aware that some very old tubas feature that style of mouthpipe bend).

I don't think I took any pictures when I saw the Berlin Philharmonic play (both in Berlin and in NYC), but Alexander von Puttkamer had his 197 in both performances. The bell is quite "funny looking" to me. And it sounds #@!$-ing amazing!

[Peach]

Are there any pictures of "real" ones (not that web-pic we've all seen) with the smaller bell...??

Someone apparently decided to Siegfried-ize the mouthpipe angle of that one
(and yes, I'm aware that some very old tubas feature that style of mouthpipe bend).

I just recently playtested a 197 which sported the almost-straight-sided bell. Should have taken a picture as it'll likely be the only one I'll ever play!

[oedipoes]

Are there any pictures of "real" ones (not that web-pic we've all seen) with the smaller bell...??

Someone apparently decided to Siegfried-ize the mouthpipe angle of that one
(and yes, I'm aware that some very old tubas feature that style of mouthpipe bend).

I just recently playtested a 197 which sported the almost-straight-sided bell. Should have taken a picture as it'll likely be the only one I'll ever play!

And, what do you think about it?

[oedipoes]

Are there any pictures of "real" ones (not that web-pic we've all seen) with the smaller bell...??

There you go:

[Peach]

The 197 is obviously a great tuba but I won't be buying one.
Firstly they are expensive - about the same as a handmade Baer.
Also, it is that expensive as a 4v. A dependent 5th is possible as an extra. I'm used to an independent 5th.
*For me* it was a tricky tuba to get around on. The sound on individual notes was great but other instruments offer greater flexibility to me. Now I'll freely admit the issue is down to my limitations but there it is. I'm also maybe quite used to pistons. Intonation was also more difficult than I would like to deal with. The standout note was 1st valve C which was a mile under (I didn't use a tuner). Valve combinations seemed to vary throughout harmonics so a good bit of adjustment would be needed. This one sported a nifty self-centering two way 1st valve slide...

Some class players use these and obviously make them work incredibly well, but they are all a lot better than I am!

[cambrook]

Interesting to hear responses from colleagues when I played a Rudy Meinl BBb for Mahler 2 recently instead of my piston 6/4 CC.

The timpanist (who is geographically and sonically in the same part of the orchestra) said: "when you play it by itself it doesn't sound that different, it's still you playing a big tuba - but when you play it with the section it blends in a completely different way". Everyone preferred it, which in itself is remarkable..

I think I there'll be another tuba joining the stable sometime soon

and it will have 4 valves

[PaulMaybery]

I remember a concert with Cleveland where Ron Bishop played Prokofiev on his 5 valve Rudy and Shostakovich on the 4 valve Alex.
Back to back you could hear a totally different sound. Both absolutely gorgeous and powerful. The Alex simply had more presence. They were both German rotarys. I ask him after the concert why he switched in the concert. (afterall it was a tour - and Cleveland was in Philly for the gig) The Prokoffiev had a low C sharp and he felt it better to use a 5 valve horn for that particular work. Besides, the stage crew and drivers schlepped the tubas. That was the night when I was first exposed to the magic of the Alexander. Neither tuba was right or wrong, just a tad bit different when compared back to back.