mouthpiece for BAT

[ken k]

Merry Tuba Christmas fellow Tubenetters,

I recently purchased a BAT Conn 36J. I have been experimenting with various mouthpieces. I am curious what others use for their BAT. I usually playa a Boosey & Hawkes Imperial Eb, so this Conn is quite a bit bigger. I use a Sellmansberger Solo2 cup with the spacer or the newer deeper rim or the Imperial cup with a regular rim on my Eb.

I have been experimenting using a Sellmansberger Symphony, a Tuba Exchange Rose Model by Marcinkewicz (SP?), a Conn helleberg, Sellmansberg solo, and the Solo2 mentioned above.

The Rose model is a big bowl cup similar to the Bach 24AW minus the fat rim and it really gives the horn a round, "cherubic" sound, makes me want to play Asleep in the Deep all day. The Sellmansberger Symphony is a smooth sound also. I am more used to the rim shape since I use the same rim on my Eb. The Sellmansberger Solo (original one piece model) gives a little more edge to the horn, but I do not know if I want that from such a big horn. The purpose of this horn is to have that big velvety tone, no?

So anyway I am having fun playing with my new toy, and just was curious what others thought. I am thinking of using this horn for my two Reading Pops gigs this month.

ken k

[PaulMaybery]

Several things come to mind. The BAT is huge and balancing resistance is an issue. Too big of a MP and it sucks the wind out of you. Too small and you might as well be playing a 4/4. I have a BMB CC BAT. It came with a MP that Dick Barth supplied with it. It is basically a relatively flat rimmed Helleberg with a well designed throat and a shank that approaches a euro shank. While I have tried quite a few premium mouthpieces I keep coming back to this one. It is close to the Conn Helleberg 120 (as I believe it is called) I've tried the Monette 94 Prana, and a pile of others. The Sidey classic Helleberg might be the closest and it comes in Stainless and I have mine with a Gold Titanium H kote. Very nice.
But I still keep gravitating to the BMB stock MP. If you blow it the right way, so many mps work rather well with the BAT.
To me it is more about regulating the air stream and also being careful of the size of your embouchure. (That can be a confusing issue, but it had to do with how wide you address the mp with regard to lip tissue and musculature.) It could more generically construed as just playing a bit lighter. If you are going to be the deep tuba in a concert band, perhaps the PT 88+ or a Holton Revelation 52 (or Conn Chief) can give you the big deep sound. It might though be difficult to realize a light mid and upper range with it. I really like the Helleberg as a "go to" MP. Bear in mind, if you are doing a lot of concert band (summer pops style concerts) with plenty of marches and note heavy transcriptions, you may care for something a little more middle of the road like the Helleberg 7B or even a Conn 2. Many of the old timers used fairly medium sized mps. I think of Bell and Torchinsky using King 26, standard Helleberg and Bach 18. Even Fletcher used a Conn 2 and a Bach 24AW with his Holton CC BAT. I know first hand as I helped him get one unstuck on the LSO USA 1972 tour. BATs are so much about addressing the instrument. It is a concept of how you deliver the air column - that is - speed and volume. My feeling is that most pieces within the mid range sizes will work well. Getting familiar with it is key. Yes you will get a monstrous sound with the big PT 88+ and more lyric benefits from a 7B. Choose the right tool for the job and have a couple different sizes at your disposal.

[Ken Crawford]

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[iiipopes]

If one of them - via some miracle - plays the 3rd partial F in-tune on that 36J, use that one.

What bloke said. Try the blokepiece Imperial with your choice of rim. It is a little deeper than the solo and has the presence without the edge, and the "compressed funnel" cup should compliment the inherent tone of the 36J. Or try a spacer with the solo to deepen it slightly and do the same thing. PM me if you want to borrow one to see if it works for you. I have an extra. If it works, then purchase one from bloke.

[Brown Mule]

Am using Bach 7 or Conn Chief successfully with my 25j.------------both work great for me.

[TheGoyWonder]

7B certainly tames the beast, very good for technical/clean playing. Low range somewhat impaired.

Bach 12 is good for a big easy thumpy string-bass sound. Helleberg 120/plain is a compromise, it waters down the signature 7B sound. Sounds slightly "nasal" for me, where the 7B condenses the tone to sound more natural in that particular spectrum. Hard to explain, but Bach 12 cleared it up for me. Achieving piano is harder with the Bach 12.

[balchb]

I don't have a BAT, but I'd love to hear what a PT-48 would sound like. I love what it did to the sound of my Miraclone compared to a Conn Helleberg.

[Rick Denney]

My Holton 345 came with a Revelation 52, which would be illegal if used as a toilet because it would move too much water. It's pretty wheezy on that instrument.

I use a Sellmansberger Orchestra Grand, and it has enough cup and a moderate enough throat to keep from being woofy but is still big enough to let the instrument do what it does. It's a bit less deep than the Imperial, I think.

Rick "who uses a Sellmansberger Symphony on his Hirsbrunner kaiser" Denney

[Rick Denney]

I don't have a BAT, but I'd love to hear what a PT-48 would sound like. I love what it did to the sound of my Miraclone compared to a Conn Helleberg.

A PT-48 does pretty well, actually. It's a bit more cuppy than a Helleberg, which helps to control woofiness on a big tuba. It was my choice before trying the more overtly Geibish mouthpieces like the Stofer and the Sellmansberger offerings.

Rick "always looking for clarity" Denney

[TubaSteve]

I am interested in this topic especially now that my Holton BB350 BAT is almost done at Lee Stofer's shop. (I should have the horn this week! ) I have been using a Bach 18 on my 5/4 Reynolds with great success. I am now thinking of giving it a try for the BB-350 as well. I regularly use the 7B as well. Mostly on the Meinl Weston 25. I tried the 120 for some time, but found that I suffered with accuracy even after a significant time on the piece, and went back to the 7B. I have a Holton Galaxy, not sure the size, but it is a large mouthpiece. The bank will be empty after this, so I will use what I have at home for now. ( over $25,000 spent in unexpected medical costs for the family this year, killed my tuba budget. )

Steve

P.S. Anyone interested in a very nice playing Reynolds 140 Sousaphone or a Recording Bass?

[Donn]

Dang, if you had popped up with the recording bass a week ago it would have been hard to say no - those Reynolds have an excellent reputation around here - but it's looking like I'm committed to the BAT-man route at this point. For which I expect I will continue to use the same mouthpieces I use for everything else, which usually ends up being a Marcinkiewicz H1 if I've been practicing, but we'll see.

[southtubist]

I used a Bloke Symphony on two 6/4 horns. It worked really well on a 6/4 Conn grand orchestral. It also worked really well on a Miraphone 190. It also works well on every tuba I pickup. . . I don't believe in using a small mouthpiece on a big tuba. I like to unleash the inner beast a lot, and I feel that small mouthpieces hold me back a little. I've always found it less work to make large equipment clear sounding than to make small equipment sound huge.

Then again, I've played this mouthpiece exclusively for about 5 years. . .

[ken k]

So far I am leaning towards the sellmansberger symphony, although I do like the tuba exchange rose model too...

[iattp]

I own a Conn 20j and I've been using a Denis Wick 1L on the horn. A friend of mine plays sousaphone and he was using a 24AW on his quite huge sized BBb sousa and I suggested the 1L. The rest of the band says his sound is much bigger now. It really depends on what you want to do with it, as many have said.

Want that luscious bottom and you've got lots of air and a strong embouchure? Go with the Denis Wick 1L. I've used it for symphonic band work, jazz, "dixieland" (I prefer 1920s/30s party music), Balkan and other random nonsense.

Congratulations on the BAT. If you ever want to get rid of it, I could use another BAT (but don't tell my girlfriend).

Nick in LA

[pjv]

Just recently I sold my 36J. I switched between Bloke's Symphony and solo (with or without spacer) depending on the situation/style. Worked perfect. And don't neglect you're back bore options either.
I don't own an Imperial...yet (what's that I here on the rooftop?) so I can't chime in about that.
Have fun. Beautiful sounding horns. (Mine was made in 1930. Sweet).

[Dan Tuba]

This may sound crazy, but I've been using a Loud LM-12 on my Conn 20/21J. I have been using the LM-12 on my Conn 36K in a Nola brass band the past few months, so one day I decided to try it on my Conn 20/21Jj and it works well for me. The LM-12 for me, has good intonation, articulation, projection , and is fairly efficient. I also like the Co,nn 120, 7B, and the Sidey SSH Original. Good luck and have fun with your BAT

[LCTuba89]

Several things come to mind. The BAT is huge and balancing resistance is an issue. Too big of a MP and it sucks the wind out of you. Too small and you might as well be playing a 4/4. I have a BMB CC BAT. It came with a MP that Dick Barth supplied with it. It is basically a relatively flat rimmed Helleberg with a well designed throat and a shank that approaches a euro shank. While I have tried quite a few premium mouthpieces I keep coming back to this one. It is close to the Conn Helleberg 120 (as I believe it is called) I've tried the Monette 94 Prana, and a pile of others. The Sidey classic Helleberg might be the closest and it comes in Stainless and I have mine with a Gold Titanium H kote. Very nice.
But I still keep gravitating to the BMB stock MP. If you blow it the right way, so many mps work rather well with the BAT.
To me it is more about regulating the air stream and also being careful of the size of your embouchure. (That can be a confusing issue, but it had to do with how wide you address the mp with regard to lip tissue and musculature.) It could more generically construed as just playing a bit lighter. If you are going to be the deep tuba in a concert band, perhaps the PT 88+ or a Holton Revelation 52 (or Conn Chief) can give you the big deep sound. It might though be difficult to realize a light mid and upper range with it. I really like the Helleberg as a "go to" MP. Bear in mind, if you are doing a lot of concert band (summer pops style concerts) with plenty of marches and note heavy transcriptions, you may care for something a little more middle of the road like the Helleberg 7B or even a Conn 2. Many of the old timers used fairly medium sized mps. I think of Bell and Torchinsky using King 26, standard Helleberg and Bach 18. Even Fletcher used a Conn 2 and a Bach 24AW with his Holton CC BAT. I know first hand as I helped him get one unstuck on the LSO USA 1972 tour. BATs are so much about addressing the instrument. It is a concept of how you deliver the air column - that is - speed and volume. My feeling is that most pieces within the mid range sizes will work well. Getting familiar with it is key. Yes you will get a monstrous sound with the big PT 88+ and more lyric benefits from a 7B. Choose the right tool for the job and have a couple different sizes at your disposal.

I have to agree with you about the BMB mouthpiece. I've tried several mouthpieces with my BMB BAT, but I always go back to the stock mouthpiece. To me it just suits the horn best. Dick Barth really put a lot of thought into designing these horns and their mouthpieces.