Eb Tuba in USA

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thetubawizard
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Eb Tuba in USA

Post by thetubawizard »

Hello!

After about a year off of bass tuba playing due to medical reasons, I went to TMEA yesterday with the intent of trying every bass tuba there to find one for me. I used to play F Tuba. In fact for awhile I used it more than my CC. So imagine my surprise when I can’t find a single F tuba that feels “right” and a Wessex Eb that feels like one of the best bass Tubas I’ve ever played (don’t judge if you are anti Chinese horns, everyone’s face is different!).

Now I’m torn because I really want one but I’ve always been told that Eb tuba doesn’t win auditions in the U.S. because of a F tuba sound preference. So here is my questions! Has anyone in the U.S. had success in auditions on Eb? I’m a very strong believe that I am in charge of my sound. Why would a whole step make such a big difference?

I’ll admit that I’ve never played Eb tuba before yesterday and my specific knowledge on that keyed tuba is limited. I look forward to reading responses and learning more on the subject!
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Re: Eb Tuba in USA

Post by ASTuba »

Wade's 100% right on everything he says. It's a really well written post, and everyone on this board should read it very carefully and remember it.

There are a couple of reasons why people have said Eb tubas are not good for orchestra, as I have heard this topic of conversation a lot with orchestral tuba players:

1) The Eb tubas that have been available all have bells that point the wrong way (think all the 3+1 compensating tubas).

2) With all the orchestral music in sharp keys, some of it doesn't lay well on the fingers with Eb tuba. I remember vividly in a masterclass a professional Eb tuba player was asked to play Bydlo. When asked, this person said, "Man, this excerpt is hard on Eb tuba, as I have to lip slur from the C# to G#." He nailed it anyway.

Bottom line is: play what makes you happy, and you will play the best that you can.
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Re: Eb Tuba in USA

Post by Three Valves »

the elephant wrote:...and not some anger-filled screed.
I for one, would be disappointed if it were not some anger-filled screed!! :tuba:
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Re: Eb Tuba in USA

Post by GC »

Which Wessex Eb were you referring to? They have at least 7 on their site and a couple more coming down the pipeline.
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Re: Eb Tuba in USA

Post by windshieldbug »

I will add my endorsement of Wade’s observations.
In fact, even if the outgoing tuba player IS on the committee, his remarks still hold.
Musicality is paramount.
Equipment is incidental.
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Re: Eb Tuba in USA

Post by thetubawizard »

Thank you for the posts!

A lot of what has been said really aligns with my personal views and feelings on the subject. I was torn because that "f tuba is the american sound" mindset is what my previous teachers use to tell me. I still consider them excellent players and respect them but after being out of college for awhile and making a living teaching lessons and playing my horn I've really started to question that specific ideology; Why should key/make/model matter if it sounds good? Hence, the post. I feel much better about my plans to get and learn E-flat tuba.

I should have probably said this earlier as well. I'm not getting a bass tuba purely to go out and take auditions with it. I will probably use it mostly for brass quintet. I also thought it would help on days that I'm teaching lots of euphonium students so I'm not killing my face playing in the atmosphere on CC all day! It's nice to know that when a day(s) comes that I do take an audition that the fact I could possibly be playing an E-flat tuba won't automatically end my chances!

Lastly, sorry for not specifying which tuba I liked. It was the Wessex Gnagey. I like the cavalry also but with my face and mp set up, it just didn't feel or SOUND as good to me as the Gnagey.

Thanks!
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Re: Eb Tuba in USA

Post by thetubawizard »

Also, thank you for the information on the audition process! I haven't taken many auditions so far and it is nice to have a better understanding how it all works! I'm really glad I made this post. I've learned a lot!
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Re: Eb Tuba in USA

Post by Tschulze »

I play Eb for almost everything. I play on a Wessex champion that works for almost everything I need it for. I don’t have a chair in an orchestra but I know a handful of orchestral musicians who have been successful on Eb for their bass including the Des Moines sypmphony Tuba that plays on a besson 983. Wessex has some really great horns, and they are always improving. The champion, solo, and Gnagey are all great horns, and there is some convenience that comes with the compensating system of the 3 + 1 horns. I believe they are also coming out with some compensating front action horns with both large and small bells. If they are anything like the besson 983/984, then I’m sure they will sond great in an audition. Hope this helps. Wessex is making great strides and I think they deserve the support of our community!!
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Re: Eb Tuba in USA

Post by thetubawizard »

Sam Gnagey Pm'd me earlier asking about the tubas I tried and after messaging, asked that I share my thoughts on this thread. Here is what I had to say about the 2 E-flat horns I liked!
thetubawizard wrote:Hello!

I enjoyed both the “Gnagey” and the “Cavalry” but the “Gnagey” won the day for me. From what i could tell over all the noise interference it was extremely in tune (I used tonal energy) and what really surprised me is that I didn’t feel the normal fuzzy/thin in the lower partials. I loved how versatile it felt also. I didn’t have to over work in the dynamic extremes and was also able to change to a slightly brighter tone with very little embouchure change which I think would be extremely benifitful depending on the chamber ensemble I would be in.

The “Cavalry” played similarly but I REALLY did not like the thumb ring placement and the fact that it didn’t have a 5 valve (assuming it is as important on Eb as I found it on F). But most importantly, with my face and mp setup yesterday, I just didn’t sound “As good” as I did on the “Gnagey”. Please don’t interpret that as I didn’t enjoy it because I very much did. It is just not for me. I did not check tuning on this instrument so I can’t really give my opinion on that front.
Nick
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Re: Eb Tuba in USA

Post by Oldschooltuba »

I was working in the Wessex booth and had a great time the last two days. I'll tell you that I love the Gnagey Eb. A wonderful free blowing horn.
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Re: Eb Tuba in USA

Post by Sam Gnagey »

Thanks, Nick for sharing your observations.
I've used an E-flat tuba in orchestra a lot. It's perfect for most all bass tuba orchestral lit. And, for any accomplished player there is no problem with "awkward fingerings" in sharp keys. I really enjoyed playing such works as Symphony Fantastique, Brahms Requiem, Franck Symphony in D minor, Organ Symphony and lots more.
Considering the usually small bore (.689"/17.5mm) of most E-flats they typically produce a more robust sound and far better low register than larger bore F tubas.
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Re: Eb Tuba in USA

Post by Jay Bertolet »

There have been a lot of posts here with some very good advice (Thank you Wade, you are FAR too kind!). I would only add a couple of thoughts:

Either a horn turns you on/lights your fire/inspires you to play and work hard or it doesn't. Why do you go hear a musician? I want to hear technical mastery. I want to hear musical creativity. I want to hear excitement! How exactly does a given key of a horn affect that? The short answer is that it doesn't if the horn matches you and you it. If you find a given instrument is an effective vehicle for your musical voice, why wouldn't you want to use it? Pursue what works for you.

Eb tubas are just like any other key of tuba. The individual instruments and models are highly variable. I currently have 3 Eb "tubas": A Willson, a Cerveny (smaller, more F tuba sounding Eb), and a M-W Cimbasso. Each one does very specific things really well. You'll find many different Eb tubas that sound in a variety of ways. Keep trying them until you find the one that really feels right. Further, the music you're playing should dictate (at least in part) what equipment you use. The important part is to keep an open mind and use the tuba that makes you sound your best. You also have to do your part and work really hard on any instrument you would use in public so you'll sound your best. It's a 2 way street.

I'm doing a performance of Brahms 2 in a few weeks and I'll be using my Willson Eb. I have played the Brahms on CC for many years but I tried it on Eb a couple years ago and fell in love. Always keep looking for new ways to play better.

Do your homework, know your options, and make the selection that fits you best. If you do all that, you can't go wrong.
My opinion for what it's worth...


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Re: Eb Tuba in USA

Post by ursatz »

The Fantastic Symphony is cake on the E flat. Midsummer also no big deal on E flat.

Play the snot out of Blazhevich book 2 .

Get the horn you like.

Mind over metal.

Wade's wisdom resonates.

When the trombones ask you to play the low horn, well... you got to play the low horn, even if the high horn is easier, in which case it won't matter if you have an F or E flat.

Quintet music is just as fun (maybe more) on E flat.
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Re: Eb Tuba in USA

Post by PChadbourne »

I play Eb on EVERYTHING and I don’t look back. I have never been in a financial position to be able to afford a larger horn so I’ve always had to just make it work. Which with my horn it basically plays itself, and I don’t think I have encountered an instance where I NEEDED something bigger.

Eb’s kick @$$ and are totally under appreciated so go for the Eb!!
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Re: Eb Tuba in USA

Post by bone-a-phone »

Just to pile on, here, as a trombone player I play with 3 tubists regularly in this area. 2 Ebs and 1 BBb. I really like the Eb in orchestra and in quintet. The BBb can get overpowering sometimes, but the Eb matches the rest of the brass more naturally. Its the pairing with the bass bone that matters most.

I've run into some of this tuba prejudice recently in an unexpected place and at first I fell for it, but I realized that there are different types of tubas because players have different goals. My goals didn't really fit these prejudices, but it took me a while to figure that out. I wound up on a Wessex Eb as well, but I got a Bombino 3/4 primarily to learn on and supplement bass bone.
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Re: Eb Tuba in USA

Post by Donn »

bone-a-phone wrote:I play with 3 tubists regularly in this area. 2 Ebs and 1 BBb.
If you don't mind me asking, what country is this area in?
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Re: Eb Tuba in USA

Post by bone-a-phone »

Donn wrote:
bone-a-phone wrote:I play with 3 tubists regularly in this area. 2 Ebs and 1 BBb.
If you don't mind me asking, what country is this area in?
Um, US. East Coast. A little off the beaten path.
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Re: Eb Tuba in USA

Post by Yane »

I second the idea of an Eb as an all purpose horn, reasonable low notes but while not
leaving you straining for high notes in the rep that was probably meant for bass saxhorns or such.
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Re: Eb Tuba in USA

Post by Lee Stofer »

Eb tubas have been seriously underestimated by many in the US for a long time. The first time I knowingly heard an Eb in public performance was in Washington, DC in 1985, when Marty Erickson was in the Navy Band's brass quintet - what a treat to hear! That's when I started considering an Eb as a serious alternative. I have spoken with Professor Bert Nordbloom, an American tuba player who has been living in Germany since 1972, who plays a Besson 3+1 Eb in a German orchestra. He told me that when he came to audition, he was told that he would "have to" play an F tuba. He said he didn't have and F tuba, or access to one, and auditioned with his Eb, thinking that if they don't mention it again, it didn't matter that it was an Eb - and he was right.

Several years ago, I had a customer come to the shop to play-test Eb tubas, as he was looking for an inexpensive 2nd horn to complement his King 2341 BBb. He tried the two antique 3-valve Eb's I had, and then decided to try the new Kanstul York-copy Eb, which was basically as large as his new-style King 2341. After a lot of play-testing, he said, "I hadn't planned to buy a new Eb tuba today!", but he did. Two weeks later, he called me and said, "I'm coming back to the shop, to drop off the BBb for you to sell. The Eb will do everything, and I don't need the other horn."

I'm glad to see that so many people have given good advice about orchestral auditions, which should be approached as an "Excerpts Recital." Enjoy your Eb tuba, don't worry about an F, because at the end of the day, you will sound like you, no matter what you are playing.
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Re: Eb Tuba in USA

Post by jeopardymaster »

I had to work my butt off on F to make it play it well and in tune. But for me, going from CC to Eb is point and shoot, relatively speaking. I get a bit of tanglefoot at first in low register with the 4th valve down so much, but that's what CCs and BBbs are for anyway.
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