TNFJ Question

The bulk of the musical talk
Post Reply
User avatar
windshieldbug
Once got the "hand" as a cue
Once got the "hand" as a cue
Posts: 11511
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:41 pm
Location: 8vb

Re: TNFJ Question

Post by windshieldbug »

I do that when playing trumpet.
I like the sound a Bach 1 gives me, and it feels more familiar, but if I am worried about fatigue I will drop to a 3.
Seriously! :shock:
Instead of talking to your plants, if you yelled at them would they still grow, but only to be troubled and insecure?
User avatar
Donn
6 valves
6 valves
Posts: 5977
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:58 pm
Location: Seattle, ☯

Re: TNFJ Question

Post by Donn »

Round, or flat?
User avatar
iiipopes
Utility Infielder
Utility Infielder
Posts: 8556
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:10 am

Re: TNFJ Question

Post by iiipopes »

Rim contour has more to do with endurance than rim diameter, although I agree that depending on a player's embouchure, if a mouthpiece is too wide in internal diameter, then the muscles just can't adjust.

The answer to both questions is to find a mouthpiece with a diameter you can live with and play it. Period. Practice, practice, practice. Over time, issues of tone and endurance fade away as the embouchure strengthens and you are better able to gauge the breath support needed to keep everything going.

Yes - I said breath support. That is most important. What everybody forgets: A WIDER DIAMETER MEANS MORE AREA, WHICH TAKES MORE AIR, ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL, TO KEEP THE VELOCITY OF THE AIR UP TO BUZZ THE EMBOUCHURE. Without the added air, the embouchure will prematurely fatigue. Bernoulli's principal in a nutshell.
Jupiter JTU1110, RT-82.
"Real" Conn 36K.
User avatar
Donn
6 valves
6 valves
Posts: 5977
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:58 pm
Location: Seattle, ☯

Re: TNFJ Question

Post by Donn »

I guess it's a given that we may play mouthpieces of varying sizes, in the course of our tuba playing careers. For various reasons. So, to be more specific, the question at hand seems to be about the duration of a particular choice, and whether it might overlap with other choices? If there were a correct/religious answer, I wouldn't be the one to get it from. People seem to differ quite a bit over this - some have a hard time even using a different mouthpiece for trombone or euphonium, others are more in the Mouthpiece of the Moment Club. For whatever reason, the adjustment to a different mouthpiece seems to be much more trouble for some people, less for others.

I guess it's fairly obvious that a larger internal diameter mouthpiece presents some challenges to the player. I don't hear about it as much, but I suspect that a smaller mouthpiece also brings its own technical challenges, if not such obvious ones. If you more or less immediately hear things you like from a larger mouthpiece, is there any potential improve your ability to get those things out of a more moderate size mouthpiece?
Three Valves
6 valves
6 valves
Posts: 4230
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:44 am
Location: With my fellow Thought Criminals

Re: TNFJ Question

Post by Three Valves »

iiipopes wrote:Rim contour has more to do with endurance than rim diameter,
I concur.

I thought I liked a flatter, sharper inner rim like the Conn 120S.

But I found out I fatigued more quickly on it than on a more round rim.

Now I can practice for nearly 1 and 1/2 hours!!

:tuba:
I am committed to the advancement of civil rights, minus the Marxist intimidation and thuggery of BLM.
fenne1ca
3 valves
3 valves
Posts: 253
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:39 pm
Location: Fayetteville, NC

Re: TNFJ Question

Post by fenne1ca »

Three Valves wrote:
iiipopes wrote:Rim contour has more to do with endurance than rim diameter,
I concur.

I thought I liked a flatter, sharper inner rim like the Conn 120S.

But I found out I fatigued more quickly on it than on a more round rim.

:tuba:
Same here. Conn 120 for a long time, now I am all-in on my G&W Taku and Williwaw. Love Sellmansberger #2 too, even though I ended up going in a different direction.
Chris Fenner
1918 Keefer Eb
191? Keefer BBb Helicon
User avatar
Doug Elliott
pro musician
pro musician
Posts: 611
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:59 pm

Re: TNFJ Question

Post by Doug Elliott »

There is a pretty fair amount of difference between those two sizes. I think you can probably find something between them that will do the job well. My 129 and 130 are both between those two. And they're both pretty common diameters for mouthpieces.
User avatar
GC
5 valves
5 valves
Posts: 1800
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 5:52 am
Location: Rome, GA (between Rosedale and Armuchee)

Re: TNFJ Question

Post by GC »

I bought Wick 2CC and 3CC mouthpieces last year when I finally decided that deep funnel cups work better for me on my Conn Monster Eb. I use the 3CC most of the time, and use the 2CC only if there's a lot of low notes in concert band literature or I need a darker tone. My last concert involved a lot of 4th ledger line F's and Eb's and even a couple of Db's, and on an Eb tuba, that needs a bit of help (especially the low F's).
JP/Sterling 377 compensating Eb; Warburton "The Grail" T.G.4, RM-9 7.8, Yamaha 66D4; for sale > 1914 Conn Monster Eb (my avatar), ca. 1905 Fillmore Bros 1/4-size Eb, Bach 42B trombone
User avatar
iiipopes
Utility Infielder
Utility Infielder
Posts: 8556
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:10 am

Re: TNFJ Question

Post by iiipopes »

Stryk wrote: Maybe I should specify that I am using the same mouthpiece and same profile rim. The only thing changing in is diameter of the opening.
Re-read the last sentence of my post.
Last edited by iiipopes on Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jupiter JTU1110, RT-82.
"Real" Conn 36K.
David A. Goldfarb
bugler
bugler
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 1:30 am
Location: Honolulu, Hawai'i

Re: TNFJ Question

Post by David A. Goldfarb »

I don't like changing rims, so I use one screw rim for all my alto and tenor trombone purposes, and switch cups and shanks for different uses. When I'm playing big band lead or salsa on a small horn, I use a shallow cup to maximize my endurance and range. I've got a deeper one for section playing and a large shank cup section for my symphonic horn, and a really shallow cup with an alto shank for alto trombone. I recently had that rim copied for gigs where I have to switch between alto and tenor.

Alas, it's just not big enough for bass trombone or tuba, so I have to use larger mouthpieces for those, but I try not to let them overlap with each other too much, or I find it's harder to place the mouthpiece consistently.

My current mix is:

Giardinelli custom rim, a little narrower and more rounded than a Giardinelli 5 (25.0mm) for alto/tenor trombones, Bach 1G Megatone for bass trombone, PT-88 for BBb tuba.
twitter: @GoldfarbTbone
1958 BBb Martin "Mammoth"
& a handful of 'bones
User avatar
MaryAnn
Occasionally Visiting Pipsqueak
Occasionally Visiting Pipsqueak
Posts: 3217
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 9:58 am

Re: TNFJ Question

Post by MaryAnn »

Well....I seem to not be in the middle of the bell curve, as usual. My 32.5 mm rim only allows the very edges of my corners to be seen, so I am essentially free buzzing into the mouthpiece. I do not tire, and any applied pressure is on my bones, not my muscles, because of the size of the cup compared to my face, and therefore use basically zero pressure and rely on lip position. I do tire on other instruments with smaller cups (horn, cornet) because of the range required. If I tried to play that range on tuba, I'm sure I would tire. If I play tuba range on those instruments, such as euph on the Eb part in brass band, once again I do not tire. So....I'm not sure what is going on with those of you who tire playing the same range but on different cups. I do a mouthpiece based on the sound I get, and just stick with it until it works on a physical level.
User avatar
Leland
pro musician
pro musician
Posts: 1650
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 11:54 am
Location: Washington, DC

Re: TNFJ Question

Post by Leland »

I've never changed mouthpieces to improve endurance.

What I wonder, though, is if the other mouthpiece introduces tuning errors, even if they're slight, that you're compensating for, which makes your face work harder.

Or maybe you're going for the same tone color as with the smaller mouthpiece, which means you have to play louder on the bigger one. I've switched to smaller mouthpieces to get a brighter sound for less effort, like a livelier solo sound or an easier blend with a quintet.
Post Reply