No, this is not your going-to-college, switch from Bbb to CC question...I'm a retiree who took up tuba when my abdominal hernia made playing trumpet uncomfortable. My 71 year old mind is struggling with learning the new fingerings for a non-transposing BBb instrument.
I was thinking about changing to CC so that I don't have to hassle with this. I currently have two Bbb tubas, a Conn 20J, which is awesome to play and a Karl Ziess Master Model (186 clone) which is also fun to play and pretty much point and shoot. I could sell both of these and add a few hundred to get a Mack 410 CC or similar...
Does this sound reasonable or should I just buckle down and learn the BBb fingerings?
You sure you don't want to switch to Eb? You know what I'm talking about, looks like Bb/treble with the key signature discounted. It's a good deal if you happen to like the idea of playing bass tuba and you have a line on a particular Eb you like. Otherwise, better to play what you want and learn how to read for it, but everyone's different, that might take a long time.
I picked up Tuba after playing Euphonium for many decades (mainly because our band needed Sousaphone more than another Euph), When I picked up BBb tuba the fingerings were easy since they were the Euphonium bass clef fingerings down an octave. Then when I upgraded my Tuba I was encouraged to get a CC by the person who I had been taking lessons with. Since I knew Trumpet / Treble Clef Euphonium Fingerings already it was a relatively easy transition for me to switch to CC fingerings. The challenge I have now is when I do play BBb Sousaphone in the Summer for Marching if I don't really concentrate on it I have on rare occasions had a momentary lapse into CC fingerings on the BBb instrument. If you aren't planning on Marching and don't see Sousaphone in your future as a trumpet player you will find the CC fingerings fairly easy to remember. I don't really perceive any big advantage of CC over BBb or vice versa (I don't have any experience with Eb) so If you think CC fingerings will be easier for you to remember as a Trumpet player you are probably right. There is something to be said for challenging ourselves mentally especially as we age, and you do already have the BBb horn you might want to stick with it for a while longer and see it it clicks in.
Retired Army Reserve 98th Div. Band: Euphonium, Trombone, Tuba, Bass Guitar
Miraphone 186 CC
Conn 36K Sousaphone
Euphonium: Yamaha YEP-321 (modified with Euro-shank receiver with Lehman M mouthpiece)
Trombones:Yamaha 612 Bass, Conn 88H
I believe my situation is similar to yours. Way back in HS I was a pretty decent trumpet player. As some years passed, I always loved the sound of the Euphonium, so about 30 years ago the switch to playing and reading TC Euphonium was fairly seamless. As a piano player, I 'm fluent reading BC, but reading BC Euphonium, although manageable, always blew my mind. About 6 years ago when I came over to the dark side of Tuba, I selected a CC and never looked back. I read the notes for what they are and deal with the same basic fingering. Of course, instrument specific considerations, alternates, false, etc aside. May here would say it's a cop out, but I find it super easy. I can manage a BBb Tuba but again it messes with my mind. Just my 2 cents.
2014 Wisemann 900 with Laskey 30H
~1980 Cerveny 4V CC Piggy
1935 Franz Schediwy BBb
1968 Conn 2J (thinking of selling)
Appreciate all your thoughts...I should have mentioned that I am comfortable in bass clef from playing the piano and reading bass clef in choir (I sing bass). It's just the transpostion or change from Bb trumpet fingerings that gets me. I don't see how you pros play in BBb, CC and F and/or Eb at the drop of a hat.
I do have a Kieffer 3 valve Eb, but was hoping to play contrabass tuba. Interested in any further verdicts from the TNFJ, er, experts.
I'd say we know a good deal less, than you do. Your apparently hard wired connection between note names and trumpet valves is quite alien to me - maybe because I learned to read while singing, and then playing recorders (a family of woodwinds in various keys, all read concert pitch.) Others have found other ways to read. It seems that you're on to something that you can see would work for you - I can't say you're right, I can only say "don't listen to me."
Maybe someone has a CC instrument you could borrow to see if it translates like you suspect it will? I wouldn't have thought that would be any easier a transition than BBb fingerings.
Otherwise as others have mentioned an Eb would be an almost 1-to-1 transition from trumpet. Not the same as a contrabass but you can find some very large old American Ebs for not much money. My Holton Eb is larger than a 3/4 BBb. Just make sure to get at least a 4th valve if you go this route.
I know a lot of Eb players are satisfied with what they get, but for someone who actually wants a contrabass tuba, disappointment would be a real risk. Physical size is no guarantee of low end performance.
bloke wrote:I regularly use tubas of the four common lengths.
My mind is no quicker than any, and slower than many.
Looking at black spots and mashing buttons is not the most difficult task that humans have mastered.
Something tells me that you can accomplish this with most any tuba of most any length.
If you want something new/shiny, just get it.
We don't know anything more than you do.
This. I think it is scarier than it seems. Just takes some work. Has anyone every really, I mean really, tried to master a new keyed horn/clef/transposition and totally failed?
It's more than just learning fingerings, those notes your lips and ears try to go to on a Bb horn are dead or missing on a C horn. You will be re-training your whole body for this. If you're 71 years old, I would stick to Bb and enjoy life.
See? Every way there is to do it, someone does it that way. Just to see what would happen, I just now went and played a little Bach ditty on my Eb tuba as if it were the BBb tuba I usually use for that. Even though the notes were coming out a fourth higher, my head did not explode. But yours might. Only you can say. At 71, though, I wouldn't mess around, you probably don't have much longer.
Donn wrote:See? Every way there is to do it, someone does it that way. Just to see what would happen, I just now went and played a little Bach ditty on my Eb tuba as if it were the BBb tuba I usually use for that. Even though the notes were coming out a fourth higher, my head did not explode. But yours might. Only you can say. At 71, though, I wouldn't mess around, you probably don't have much longer.
Hrrmmph! On behalf of myself and maybe one or two other oldsters on this board, age 71 seems youthful. I assume you were kidding with that remark. If not, watch out. Don't mess with seniors. Ha.
Being 67 years old, I find myself enjoying learning new things. Sometimes it's a challenge, but mostly enjoyable.
You have simple choices........ the cheapest would be to nail down the BBb tuba fingerings. The second choice ..........forge ahead and buy whatever you want, then become proficient on both horns and both sets of fingerings.
That being said...... to a certain extent I understand your "indecision". I've taught kids to play tons of different instruments during my teaching career, and at times I'd got confused with fingerings. However, my biggest stumbling block was reading bass clef on a baritone/euphonium. For some ungodly reason, when I picked up that instrument, I started using treble clef fingerings..... even while reading bass clef!!
Working in high school, I had switched most of my baritone players from trumpet or some other treble clef instrument. So, obviously, it was much quicker/easier for them to continue reading treble clef. For some of the "sharper" kids..... I taught them bass clef. But, the overwhelming number of kids read treble clef, so, my tendency to use treble fingerings probably comes from that. Once I reset my brain and concentrate on what I'm doing, I'm fine. I just hate that momentary "fit of confusion" when the treble clef fingerings creep in!!!!!
While I loved learning to play Eb these last couple of years, it was like being mostly fluent in a foreign language. When I was tired, I'd miss fingerings, use BBb fingerings (false cognates..) or just come up blank about what to do... that sort of thing. I decided to go back to BBb and it's been just "easier" on the old 'noggin. Perhaps if I'd spent more time working fingering patterns on scales and that sort of thing I would have surmounted the Eb fluency/facility issue.
David Smith
Wessex BBb Grand (5 valve)
Wessex Festivo
Ace wrote:
...If not, watch out. Don't mess with seniors. Ha.
Ace
I have been watching The Amazing World of Gumball on Hulu for the past couple of weeks... that line made think of this video clip. Hope y'all find it enjoyable.
