Dr. Fred Young and his giant tubas

[jperry1466]

Reading an older post about Dr. Fred Young and his Double BBb/EEE tuba brought back a memory. As a member of the University of Kentucky tuba ensemble in 1974, I got to attend the Southeast area T.U.B.A. symposium in Knoxville, Tennessee. We performed there and got to meet Jim Self, Tommy Johnson, and Dr. Fred Young, among others. Harvey Phillips may have been there, but I don’t remember.

Dr. Young was a very interesting guy and let some of us play his King Symphonic BBb tuba like this one (made in the 1940s, he said),

King 1934 Tall Bass Large Tuba.jpg

which I would guess was the model he used to develop the BBb/EEE. He also had his own mouthpiece, the Reynolds Dr. Young Model. A year later, returning to Texas for my first teaching job, I found one of those mouthpieces in my desk, and knowing that no kid could possibly play it, it went into my collection. Dr. Reynolds talked about widening the throat more and more to decrease back pressure. There is no “cup” per se; the sides are straight right down to the throat, and the result was nearly a funnel you could use put oil in your car. If you have never had a chance to play on one, just get the nearest 2 gallon bucket you can find and blow in it; it’s pretty close to the same sensation. Mine pictured below (silver polish did wonders for it) is between an old Bach 18 and my Helleberg for comparison. At the symposium, Dr. Young was playing an acrylic see-through copy of this mouthpiece, and you could see him tonguing between his teeth.

[MackBrass]

I own one of the Dr Young mpc's like this and its just a cool thing to have if your a collector. Playing it is like blowing into a toilet bowl. I would be curious to see how one would work if were was more in line of the size of a regular tuba mpc.

[jperry1466]

I was at that conference.

What a small world. Are you from up that way? I was a grad student at the University of Kentucky at the time and then moved home to Texas to teach band for 33 years. I used to teach in your general area, a little town called Rockdale, near Austin, full of Germans and Czechs. Lots of polkas and lots of beer and great people.

[jperry1466]

I own one of the Dr Young mpc's like this and its just a cool thing to have if your a collector. Playing it is like blowing into a toilet bowl. I would be curious to see how one would work if were was more in line of the size of a regular tuba mpc.

I played on it today after playing a while on my Helleberg and got dizzy doing it. Dr. Young apparently had some iron lungs. I'm curious too; I think if it had a cup, it might be more reasonable. But I remember him talking at length about experimenting with opening the throat until he had removed all the back pressure.

[pwhitaker]

I have both the Reynolds version and the Wessex version. The original Reynolds mpc works very well in my BBb Conn Mammoth BAT.
It really emphasizes the fundamental tone at the expense of the overtones. It has no backbore to speak of; it's just a straight shot - about 11mm diameter through the shank. In German style horns that prefer bowl-shaped cups it produces (to my ears) a slighty fuzzy breathy effect.
The Wessex version is smaller - not as deep and has a slightly smaller inner rim diameter (34 mm) and a 10mm backbore. It gives a similar - but not as exaggerated - effect as I described above.

[Donn]

Interesting. The Conn 1 (and James R New C-1 copy) is deep and has a large diameter throat, but manages to be for all that a fairly conventional mouthpiece. The cup is actually a bit rounded in the usual way, just not as obviously because of the depth, and the throat is 9mm, with I suppose a relatively normal backbore. The result is not lacking in overtones.

[jperry1466]

I have both the Reynolds version and the Wessex version. The original Reynolds mpc works very well in my BBb Conn Mammoth BAT.
It really emphasizes the fundamental tone at the expense of the overtones. It has no backbore to speak of; it's just a straight shot - about 11mm diameter through the shank. In German style horns that prefer bowl-shaped cups it produces (to my ears) a slighty fuzzy breathy effect.

Yes, a very apt description, including the fuzzy breathy effect.

[humBell]

I have both the Reynolds version and the Wessex version. The original Reynolds mpc works very well in my BBb Conn Mammoth BAT.
It really emphasizes the fundamental tone at the expense of the overtones. It has no backbore to speak of; it's just a straight shot - about 11mm diameter through the shank. In German style horns that prefer bowl-shaped cups it produces (to my ears) a slighty fuzzy breathy effect.
The Wessex version is smaller - not as deep and has a slightly smaller inner rim diameter (34 mm) and a 10mm backbore. It gives a similar - but not as exaggerated - effect as I described above.

I think the fundamental tone emphasis is how come i like the one i got (an unbranded one)

I also like having to work more on breath control and articulation, as those are generally weakness of mine.

I think it is still possible to play with good breath control, as you get used to what actually gets it going, it don't take as quite as much air to do things. But yeah, my articulation still isn't the best in the world. Not that it was before.

[Donn]

Did Dr. Young sound great on his mouthpiece, and the double tuba, or did it seem like they of more academic interest to him?

[joh_tuba]

Did Dr. Young sound great on his mouthpiece, and the double tuba, or did it seem like they of more academic interest to him?

I've seen videos of him playing. He knew how to play better than many.

[jperry1466]

Did Dr. Young sound great on his mouthpiece, and the double tuba, or did it seem like they of more academic interest to him?

I've seen videos of him playing. He knew how to play better than many.

Yes, he was quite the player. Often was a guest artist with the Pittsburgh Symphony in those days. It was an interesting sound, not quite as mellow as the Meinls and Miraphones. But he was an interesting guy to talk to.

[Alex C]

Reading an older post about Dr. Fred Young and his Double BBb/EEE tuba brought back a memory. As a member of the University of Kentucky tuba ensemble in 1974, I got to attend the Southeast area T.U.B.A. symposium in Knoxville, Tennessee. We performed there and got to meet Jim Self, Tommy Johnson, and Dr. Fred Young, among others. Harvey Phillips may have been there, but I don’t remember.

Dr. Young was a very interesting guy and let some of us play his King Symphonic BBb tuba like this one (made in the 1940s, he said).

Fred Young is a bona fide smart man. His understanding of the science of sound would quickly leave any of us in the dust. He was treated poorly on Tubenet because he didn't fit the mold. He has his own ideas and can execute them far better than most musicians.

His BBb/EEE tuba is a mystery to me. It's got at least six valves, maybe more. I don't think I can play a tuba in E much less EEE. In addition it is heavy and unweildy requiring a stand to play. The horn does not stand on it's bell. It's a very individualistic approach to solving intonation issues on the tuba.

The Dr. Young mouthpiece that I have is like the ones described above. Do not say it can't be played, it was rumored that Chester Schmidz won the Boston Symphony audition playing one. Well, Chester might have been able to play it but nobody else I have heard can play it. It is not one of Dr. Young's best ideas, to say it gently. Not every idea Galileo had was good either.

[pjv]

Just a random thought, but isn’t it possible that his double tuba was so stuffy it needed a back pressure free mpc in order to make it seriously playable?

[jperry1466]

Maybe, but don't think so. I got to play his King Symphony (tall) BBb with his mouthpiece and mine, and it played very normally with mine. It took a lot of air as it was; much less with his "funnel" mouthpiece.