Meinl Weston valve block - Edit: Added link to pic

[Tubaru]

Does anyone know who/where the valve block for Meinl Weston tubas are made? I thought I read somewhere that they use a premade valve cluster that was manufactured elsewhere. I am wondering if the valve cluster had a separate warranty than the 2 years that Meinl Weston and Buffet Crampon put on their instruments.

In short I have a four year old Meinl Weston with what two expert repairmen have told me is a manufacturing defect that did not rear its head until recently and neither Meinl Weston/Buffet nor the retailer I bought it from want to stand behind their work. They both say I'm SOL because it has been four years. Basically the valves have become un-useable and require lubrication every 15 minutes due to condensation leaking into the valves from the defect. I am currently at a loss as to how to make the tuba playable again without paying $$$ for a new valve block and valves.

Any suggestions?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wyqzsiv6hsxo5 ... 6.JPG?dl=0

[DouglasJB]

I would first like to say, it would be awesome for a warranty to fix the horn, being unable to play with no solution in sight is not a fun experience.

As far as a new Valveset and/or Valves, I would consider contacting Martin A. Wilks (MAW Valves) if the problem is in the valves themselves dropping a set of MAW valves in might help, if the problem is in the casing he might still be able to help, or steer you to someone who can. I know this isn't your first option, but it might be an option to consider. A MW valveset will not be cheap.

[CC]

Contact Meinlschmidt directly, they make the valves and casing, not sure about the block. Germans are very proud of their craftsmanship. You stand a chance to speak directly with them.

http://www.jm-gmbh.de/html/e_meinlschmidt_contact.html" target="_blank

[roweenie]

You didn't specify piston or rotary, but I'm assuming you are referring to piston valves.

Last I knew, Bauerfeind makes the piston blocks for MW, among others (stock pistons and casings). Also, I believe Bauerfeind is now owned by Adams - you could try contacting them.

Meinlschmidt makes (excellent) rotary valves, and the "drop-in" MAW accessory pistons only - they have no part in the construction of stock tuba piston valve blocks, and therefore will be of no assistance regarding stock pistons or casings.

Unfortunately, Anderson Plating of Indiana has lost their valve specialist (Mr. Secrist) to retirement, so they no longer overhaul valves (at least for the foreseeable future). There may be others that provide this service, but I don't know of them.

IF your casings are still true (meaning, no honing
required), you may get away with replating your existing pistons (depending on what the defect is, you didn't specify) and then having a COMPETENT technician lap them to size.

[Tubaru]

Thanks to everyone who has replied.

I didn’t want to give too much information as I have ruffled some feather already trying to get this worked out.

Long story short, the problem is with the casing and not the valves. I am fairly certain it is not repairable by fixing the casing. I do believe that is was a manufacturing defect that should never have gotten through quality control. If not a manufacturing defect than the problem would have to been caused by the dealer I bought it from as I was told that it was a brand new tuba and I was the first owner. If it was caused by the dealer then it must have been a valve modification gone wrong and they do not want to admit responsibility.

[Tom]

In short I have a four year old Meinl Weston with what two expert repairmen have told me is a manufacturing defect that did not rear its head until recently and neither Meinl Weston/Buffet nor the retailer I bought it from want to stand behind their work. They both say I'm SOL because it has been four years.

Basically the valves have become un-useable and require lubrication every 15 minutes due to condensation leaking into the valves from the defect.

I don't quite follow...so, what then, exactly, is the defect? You've explained the symptom, but not the cause.

And it took 4 years for this to become an issue? The instrument is now completely unplayable? What explanation is there for why it was not an issue for four years? How was it determined to be a manufacturing flaw?

I'm genuinely curious about this and hope to read a follow-up from you.

[bort]

OP shared a photo with me, and I suggested that he posts it here as well.

It looks familiar to me, but I can't place my finger on it. Basically, it's like a very thin groove, in a spiral, inside of the valve casing from the top down to one of the valve ports. Seems like something that must have happened at the factory.

I *kind of* remember something about Adams or Gronitz (someone else?) valves using something "different" for valve venting, but I can't quite remember the details... or if it has anything to do with this.

I think the picture will help. Honestly, whatever happened and when is kind of secondary at this point. I think the real issue is getting those valves working properly, defect or not.

[roweenie]

I've never seen anything like that before now. Even then, if the piston was properly lapped to the correct size for the casing, I can't see how that spiral would cause unusual piston wear. Maybe the groove is deep enough to screw with the compression? What does the piston look like?

The amount of work it would take for a music store to cut those spirals in the valve casings (removal of the valveset to put in a honing machine, etc.) leads me to think that it left the factory that way, possibly from incomplete honing.

Is it like that in only one valve casing, or all four? That would be an indicator of a factory defect, I think.

[Dan Bradley]

I love Meinl-Weston tubas...but I have never had good experiences with their piston valves. Good luck.

Dan Bradley
USA

[The Big Ben]

Was it that way when you oiled that valve for the first time? The looks to be evenly spiral and I don't think this is something simply be pushing the valve up and down would create.
I can't think of anything short of replacing the casing that would fix this.

If this is a factory defect, it would seem to be the responsibility of the factory to fix- even if it is out of warranty.

((How was the Hirschbruner defective plastic/metal rotary issue settled from a few years ago? Fixed, replace or refund. Or was the owner SOL?)

[roweenie]

Something like that could happen at someone's repair shop, if some jackass decides the valves "need lapping", and (as an example) the same burr that is causing a piston to drag is "unleashed" into someone's valve casing via a drill chucked on to the valve stem. ...Hey, let's go for a little spi....oh $h!t...etc...

Wow, I hadn't thought of that - I guess that's because I personally wouldn't even dare to think about doing something like that....

[Tubaru]

Is it like that in only one valve casing, or all four? That would be an indicator of a factory defect, I think.

It is like that in two casings, the 1st and 3rd.

[Tubaru]

I don't quite follow...so, what then, exactly, is the defect? You've explained the symptom, but not the cause.

And it took 4 years for this to become an issue? The instrument is now completely unplayable? What explanation is there for why it was not an issue for four years? How was it determined to be a manufacturing flaw?

See the picture I put up that shows the defect.

It took a while to become an issue because of the type of playing I have been doing. Four years ago I was just playing Ooms and whole notes maybe once a week with my community band. The valves really didn't move that much so the oil stayed on a long time. Now I am playing up to six hours a day and playing heavy solo lit, etudes, excerpts and band literature that requires the valves to be moving constantly. Something is allowing the condensation to filter through the valves and wash away all the oil. When I pull the valves out they feel wet but they feel like there is no oil on them at all.

If the tolerances are correct, and they appear to be, the only explanation for how condensation is getting through the valve is through the defect.

[toobagrowl]

Is it like that in only one valve casing, or all four? That would be an indicator of a factory defect, I think.

It is like that in two casings, the 1st and 3rd.

Those spiral groove-cuts inside the valve casing look odd to me. Is this common on the M-W Thor?
I've not heard anyone else here talk about it. Did you notice this when you bought the tuba 4+ years ago, or did you only notice this when the 'brass techs' pointed it out If the former, it could be a factory flaw. But if the latter, it could be a 'brass tech' who f'kd up your valve casings (like Bloke said) and didn't want to fess up to it

[bububassboner]

To have that nice of a spiral on the inside makes me think of the first pass you do while threading on a manual lathe with powerfeed. I’d feel where that spiral crosses a port and see if there is a rough spot there. It would only take a small burr to make your valves very sad.


I have seen something like that added to rotors before on the stem and they also in my experience cause problems as they seem to easily collect junk in them.

Does that go all the way down the casing and is the other casing the same?