get a load of this stupid (trombone) idea

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joh_tuba
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Re: get a load of this stupid (trombone) idea

Post by joh_tuba »

Don't be silly!!

This is the way to solve this:

1) Build a trombone in the key of A as you suggest such that the hand slide is correct for an A trombone BUT the bell is shortened enough to put the trombone in D.
2) Add two *ascending* and *dependent* valves into the bell section such that when not using a trigger the horn plays nicely in A as designed. When you engage the first trigger it removes enough tubing to put the trombone in the key of C and when the second trigger is engaged it removes enough tubing to put the trombone in D.

BAM solved it!!

The net result will look something like this:https://www.instagram.com/p/BnroueNn82V ... P7qhVDW2qc

As best as I can tell the pictured horn in the link has that setup but features the key of Bb, C, and Db.
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Snake Charmer
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Re: get a load of this stupid (trombone) idea

Post by Snake Charmer »

Giving a capo to your guitar player would be cheaper! The keys you mentioned may not be your favourite ones, but they are not too bad to play on a standard Bb trombone. They just feature less "home again" 1st positions. When playing in these keys it is a help for my students to think in a comfortable key but taking step backwards, leaving the right hand where it is. And no more "clonk" into first position...
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pete edwards
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Re: get a load of this stupid (trombone) idea

Post by pete edwards »

bloke wrote: These would result in an "A" trombone - to play more easily in sharp keys.
Yes, the positions would be slightly off, and yes, that would take most really good players about two or three hours to master.

typical R&B keys:

E, A, D, G, C
most semi-good trombone players have no problems playing in those "exotic" keys to begin with.
learning a new set of slide positions is not at all like learning new fingerings. much easier just to practice your scales.
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Re: get a load of this stupid (trombone) idea

Post by timothy42b »

My clarinet playing friend has A, Bb, and Eb clarinets. I asked him if it was hard remembering three fingerings. No, they all finger the same, the sheet music is transposed. (I asked him because I play both F and C recorders, and am easily confused.)

So. We learn to transpose, they just buy another instrument. Hmmm.
joh_tuba
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Re: get a load of this stupid (trombone) idea

Post by joh_tuba »

Some of you missed the title of the thread.

Exploring stupid ideas can still be fun.
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Re: get a load of this stupid (trombone) idea

Post by joh_tuba »

Bb/A trumpets used to be a thing. Perhaps it's time for a comeback!

Link to a picture: https://www.flickr.com/photos/142942627 ... U7oh9HjRfo
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swillafew
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Re: get a load of this stupid (trombone) idea

Post by swillafew »

I was one of the bone players a week ago. I have my "Band in A Box" software as the primary means of practicing. I put in a generic blues progression, and go through it 4-5x. I start in G, and go up a half step after every run. The A blues scale can be your friend compared to some others. The secondary area of practice is the Arban study called "chord of the dominant seventh". It has 12 key signatures on the page, and they get equal time. One complements the other pretty well.
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Art Hovey
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Re: get a load of this stupid (trombone) idea

Post by Art Hovey »

As for "why Bb?" my humble opinion is that an average-size adult can reach 7th position on a Bb slide trombone, but not much farther. A trombone in A would require a longer arm, and one in C would run the risk of losing the slide in a moment of excitement.

As for the convenience of friendly keys, I hate playing barn-burners like "Panama" in Ab on a conventional upright bass; it's just plain awkward. The bands I work with rarely play in sharp keys, so several years ago I converted both of my basses to five strings tuned Bb-F-C-G-D. (Solo tuning strings intended for A-E-B-F# on a regular-sized bass can be tuned my way on my basses because they are half-size junior high-school basses with 35-inch scale.)

Switching over to the new bass tuning was very easy for me because we never use sheet music.
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Re: get a load of this stupid (trombone) idea

Post by Steginkt »

If said trombonist is "really good" enough to pearn the new positions, I assume they would be "really good" enough to play in these keys in the first place.
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pete edwards
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Re: get a load of this stupid (trombone) idea

Post by pete edwards »

if you put your finger in "sorta" the right place on guitar, it'll still play in tune.
There's a good reason no one plays violin with a capo.
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BrassedOn
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Re: get a load of this stupid (trombone) idea

Post by BrassedOn »

Wait. A trombone player had a gig!? In popular
Music?!
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Re: get a load of this stupid (trombone) idea

Post by MaryAnn »

pete edwards wrote:if you put your finger in "sorta" the right place on guitar, it'll still play in tune.
There's a good reason no one plays violin with a capo.
As an ex-pro violinist, BWAHAHAHA! That's my opinion about using a capo on a guitar too....just learn to play the damn thing.
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pete edwards
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Re: get a load of this stupid (trombone) idea

Post by pete edwards »

piano capo
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pete edwards
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Re: get a load of this stupid (trombone) idea

Post by pete edwards »

I can see the point of a capo on guitar for playing chords
six strings, four fingers...doesn't add up

single-note playing, not so much.

there aren't "open" notes on trombone- you have to hold the slide in 1st same way as in any other position. All positions are more or less equal. All keys are more or less equally easy to play in, except for some awkwardly long slide movements in the lower register. "weird" keys are more of a mental block than a physical one.

for all my fussin' i think the idea has merit. You should try it. Probably more profit to be made with tenor saxophone in A, though.
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cjk
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Re: get a load of this stupid (trombone) idea

Post by cjk »

Why wouldn't shortening a trombone to B be superior in sharp keys than lengthening one to A?

All the notes that were in first position on a Bb instrument are now in second position on a B instrument. That would be easier to transition between flat and sharp keys to me. That's easier to wrap my brain around than playing the notes B or Bb on an A trombone.

A similar argument could be made for a C trombone vs an A trombone.
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pete edwards
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Re: get a load of this stupid (trombone) idea

Post by pete edwards »

on trombone the equivalent of "open" is "let go of the slide" which would result in a gliss to 8th position (the floor)
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Re: get a load of this stupid (trombone) idea

Post by marccromme »

Steginkt wrote:If said trombonist is "really good" enough to pearn the new positions, I assume they would be "really good" enough to play in these keys in the first place.
Yes. By the way, playing A major is a s easy as playing Bb major on a trombone - exactly same movement patterns, but just one position further out. I call it capodaster playing!

So, next time you play a tune in any key you find easy, ju also practice it one half tone down. In a couple of weeks, you have learned it to perfection. Easy peasy.
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Re: get a load of this stupid (trombone) idea

Post by humBell »

Funny.

Just was chatting with rusty trombone player who related the story of showing up at a local bar on open blues night, and got up to play only to be faced by this key issue. The limiting factor wasn't guitar this time, but harmonica.

He was quick enough to handle it.

Alas, hardware solutions go under appreciated in this day and age, so i like this thread.
Thanks for playing!
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Re: get a load of this stupid (trombone) idea

Post by David Richoux »

Shifting a bit - I usually play BBb tuba, sometimes Eb. When I am playing in a string/guitar rock oriented group I switch to CC, works great if I don’t think about it too much. I can even get some solos in!
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Re: get a load of this stupid (trombone) idea

Post by Biggs »

humBell wrote: rusty trombone player
No, AdSense, he didn’t mean it!
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