Hitting Bb above middle C on trombone

[Tubaryan12]

I have no problem playing Bb above middle C on euphonium but I cannot get the note to speak consistently on trombone. The mouthpieces are similar in inside diameter.

Anyone else have a problem like this and how did you solve it? Was it an equipment issue or did you just need more time on the horn?

[tbonesullivan]

Are you trying for it in 1st or 3rd position? Can you hit the A and Ab that are in the same partial?

The trombone is a lot more free blowing than Euphonium and Tuba, so the higher range is kinda different.

[Tubaryan12]

Are you trying for it in 1st or 3rd position? Can you hit the A and Ab that are in the same partial?

The trombone is a lot more free blowing than Euphonium and Tuba, so the higher range is kinda different.

1st position

[Tubaryan12]

Oh, and one point of clarification... I'm overshooting the Bb.

[GC]

If you're overshooting, try putting the slide out a tiny amount. Or try 3rd position.

[Tubaryan12]

overshooting...OK...

Try it on a friend's King 3B, and see if it's easier.

Your 607F is a b@$t@rd model made from a 3B bell section and a .525" (yes?) bore slide section - in order to create a so-called "step-up" model without having to make any stuff they weren't already making.

You are correct, and this is what I was afraid of...that this horn and I are mismatched....lol. I do have a friend with a 3B. I may stop by his house after work.

[Tubaryan12]

Bloke, I have s Warburton mouthpiece about that same size. I'll put some air through that one and I'll also try taking my foot off the gas as well.

[greenbean]

A smaller mouthpiece will almost certainly help. That thing is big. That said, it took me years to be able to reliably play that partial on trombone. And Kings are not known to have the easiest high end.

I would spend time playing the Bb (in 1st) in both a glissed chromatic scale (G, Ab, A, Bb-holding it) and in a tongued arpeggio (Bb, D, F, Bb-holding it).

[tbonesullivan]

A smaller mouthpiece will almost certainly help. That thing is big. That said, it took me years to be able to reliably play that partial on trombone. And Kings are not known to have the easiest high end.

Yep, even on a 3b or 2b, it can be hard. They really seem to like smaller throat and cup sized mouthpieces to access the high range. When I was playing dorsey stuff on a 3b, I was playing on a 6 3/4 C.

My usual mouthpiece for a tenor is about a 4.5G. I am a really big proponent of the mouthpiece having to match both you AND the horn.

[Tubaryan12]

A smaller mouthpiece will almost certainly help. That thing is big. That said, it took me years to be able to reliably play that partial on trombone. And Kings are not known to have the easiest high end.

Yep, even on a 3b or 2b, it can be hard. They really seem to like smaller throat and cup sized mouthpieces to access the high range. When I was playing dorsey stuff on a 3b, I was playing on a 6 3/4 C.

My usual mouthpiece for a tenor is about a 4.5G. I am a really big proponent of the mouthpiece having to match both you AND the horn.

My normal mouthpiece on the horn went from a small shank Remington to a Griego 4. I love the sound of the Griego and the feel of the wide rim.
In general, I like the sound of the larger mouthpieces on trombone. I'm guessing this is probably a mistake on my end from playing mostly tuba and euphonium. I gotta change my mindset.

[Tubaryan12]

I'm NEITHER your teacher NOR your better...but (if you're willing to CONSIDER some advice...??)
there's that thing that I've brought up (more than once on this site) about "giving an instrument what ~it~ needs"...
ie. a King flugabone and the most wide-open Edwards bass trombone (wall decor... ) are NOT the same instrument, and "playing them as if they are" probably isn't going to turn out well...and the same goes for a Deutsche kaiser B-tuba vs. a Miraphone model 80 F tuba...

...and (I CERTAINLY could be wrong... ), but isn't that a really big-@$$ mouthpiece...towards the "Teutonic" end of the "tenor trombone" spectrum...?? What if you stuck something more average (and cheaper) in the receiver, and just "puffed" on that 607...??
oui...?? non...?? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Schilke-Standa ... 3092789354

bloke "etc..."

13
You nailed it once again. I tried all of the mouthpieces I have for this horn. The first thing I tried was taking my foot off the gas. That helped on all of them, but it helped the most on the Warburton 9S (same diameter as the 51C4 you suggested). I spent about a half hour going up and down on the Warburton, then went back to the bigger mouthpieces. I was able to then hit the note on all of the mouthpieces I have much more consistantly.I was giving the thing way too much air on the other mouthpieces and taking the air pressure off made it easier to hit the note on all of them.

The moral of this story: Practice more....and with the right tool for the job.

Thanks to all of you that answered the post. TNFJ at its finest!

[mikebmiller]

I play 90% trombone and I have the same range on a 12 C as a 1G or whatever equivalent. One makes the high range easier, while the other makes the low range easier, but neither will allow you to produce a note that you can't play with your chops.

[timothy42b]

Consider another possibility.
It can be awkward to talk about pivot here, but I think we could accept that angle and setting of mouthpiece make a difference.

Euphonium is mostly held in one position, and you've figured out how to get your mouth right, and you do some small adjustments moving your head. (at least I do and people I watch do)

Trombone is a different critter. Probably your head will be more still, and the trombone show some motion.

Overshooting for me is either because my horn angle too far, or I got the tongue position wrong. (cue Norsworthy) So what I would suggest is look in a mirror while playing each instrument, and see how the mouthpiece lines up on your face. I would bet you've changed that angle on trombone and not realized it.

[Tubaryan12]

Consider another possibility.
It can be awkward to talk about pivot here, but I think we could accept that angle and setting of mouthpiece make a difference.

Euphonium is mostly held in one position, and you've figured out how to get your mouth right, and you do some small adjustments moving your head. (at least I do and people I watch do)

Trombone is a different critter. Probably your head will be more still, and the trombone show some motion.

Overshooting for me is either because my horn angle too far, or I got the tongue position wrong. (cue Norsworthy) So what I would suggest is look in a mirror while playing each instrument, and see how the mouthpiece lines up on your face. I would bet you've changed that angle on trombone and not realized it.

I did notice this and when I tried to get the mouthpiece position more like when I play euphonium, it doesn't help. I may revisit position of the mouthpiece in the future, but holding a trombone is so different from any other instrument. Feeling comfortable playing may, in the end, be more beneficial in the long run.