Bruckner 7 (8va?)

[Z-Tuba Dude]

I have the Torchinsky Bruckner book, and am curious about an 8va marking in the final movement of the 7th Symphony.

It starts in the second measure of letter "P" (Measure 192), starting on the A#, and goes to the F natural in the next measure. The marking doesn't indicate whether it means for the passage to be played up an octave, or down. In either case, it doesn't make much musical sense to me. Does anyone know what is supposed to be done there?

In a recording that I have, it sounds like the tuba player plays it right where it is written

[Z-Tuba Dude]

Never mind!!!

I found the answer in a score that I didn't even realize that I owned!

In case you are interested.....it is supposed to played UP an octave!

[clagar777]

When I've seen 8va, basso usually follows it if it was meant to be played down the octave.

[DCottrell]

8va stands for ottava alto meaning an octave up.
8vb stands for ottava basso meaning an octave down. Unfortunately, it is not commonly used, and the former is frequently used in place of the latter.

[Z-Tuba Dude]

Thank you for your responses.

I guess I worded my question badly. I am actually aware of the various notations for octave displacement, but I was really questioning whether it was supposed to be there at all (it is a hand written part), because it seemed to break up the melodic line. On closer inspection, I realized after seeing the score, that it was correct, and that there was another instance of a similar situation later in the music.

[Scott Sutherland]

(it is a hand written part)

I think the answer may be a little less complex than one may be inclined to think it is. You mentioned it was a handwritten part, so I would suggest that perhaps it was the result of a music copyist error. The copyist may have incorrectly written the part in the lower octave and fixed the mistake by adding the octave displacement. I once played John Adams's Grand Pianola Music (great tuba solo by the way), and in a rehearsal the trumpet players pointed out that their entire parts were in Bb transposition, but that one small section had been written for C trumpet. Apparently, the copyist had accidentally written the parts out in this one section without transposing them, and fixed the error by changing the transposition on the part. This is not a frequent occurance, but it does happen.

Oh and the question of authenticity of Bruckner Symphony editions is a wide spread and on-going controversy in the music world. You won't get a definitive answer on that one, especially from a bunch of tuba players!

[Mike]

You have just dashed all my hopes in the cruelest way possible. Oh the humanity...

[Uncle Buck]

Never mind, after I posted, I realized my comment was irrelevant.