another lame range question

[punk_tuba]

i play a new king 2341 and i'm having a problem with the F#/Gb in the staff. i can play in the range and higher than the note, but i seems like the timbre of that note is different from the notes higher and lower than it. any suggestions on why this might be and how i could fix this.

[Allen]

This is a difficult note on many tubas. I find the equivalent, G#/Ab, fingered 23, difficult on my CC tuba. Two things helped: carefully adjusting the valve slides, and (of course) tons of practice.

Here is a valve slide tuning test you can do. Get out your tuner, but don't look at it yet. Now, play that pesky F#, and lip the pitch up and down, trying to "feel" where the center of the tuba's resonance is. Hold that center, and now look at the tuner. If the pitch is much off F#, the tuba's resonance at that note is off, which makes that note much harder to play.

In the case your valve slides need adjustment for the fingering 23, typically it's the third valve slide you can play with. You may have to compromise the tuning on some other notes that use the third valve. The main thing is not to have any of the note tunings notably off. A good teacher should be able to help you in this.

Best of luck,
Allen Walker

[TubaRay]

This is a difficult note on many tubas. I find the equivalent, G#/Ab, fingered 23, difficult on my CC tuba. Two things helped: carefully adjusting the valve slides, and (of course) tons of practice.

Here is a valve slide tuning test you can do. Get out your tuner, but don't look at it yet. Now, play that pesky F#, and lip the pitch up and down, trying to "feel" where the center of the tuba's resonance is. Hold that center, and now look at the tuner. If the pitch is much off F#, the tuba's resonance at that note is off, which makes that note much harder to play.

In the case your valve slides need adjustment for the fingering 23, typically it's the third valve slide you can play with. You may have to compromise the tuning on some other notes that use the third valve. The main thing is not to have any of the note tunings notably off. A good teacher should be able to help you in this.

Best of luck,
Allen Walker

This is excellent advice. Oftentimes brass players are not aware of this and therefore struggle needlessly with this problem. Of course, sometimes the instrument is so far off this using this method is not possible.

Anyway, Allen has offered very excellent advice.

[ken k]

buzz that pitch on the mouthpiece alone a few times to make sure that the lips are focused on the proper pitch. Then try it on the horn. You may find that will help clear it up a bit. Everyone has a break in their embouchure somewhere in their range and this could be yours. The horn will only resonate what is being buzzed into it. Just like the old computer axiom GIGO "Garbage in, Gabage out. (I am not saying that you play like garbage....)

ken k

[Leland]

buzz that pitch on the mouthpiece alone a few times to make sure that the lips are focused on the proper pitch. Then try it on the horn.

I entirely go along with GIGO, as you say, but this sounds like one of those instances where it doesn't completely help. You can buzz that F# right smack on pitch, but if the horn doesn't resonate at the correct pitch, it's going to fight you, and that's where the fracking starts.

It's just plain hard to buzz a pitch that the horn doesn't want to play. Maybe an alternate fingering would help, too -- try playing it 1st valve (although that would probably be pretty flat).

[Philip Jensen]

On my very old King, which is similar to the new Kings, the F# up through A nat. are VERY flexible. I can just about mash down any valve I want and still get close to the right pitch if I am buzzing accurately. This causes me some problems as then I have to be very careful to hear and then buzz the right note since the fingering is so flexible. Of course the best sound is acheived with the optimal fingering and accurate buzz. Playing intervals has helped me.

Philip

[iiipopes]

Try playing the Gb with just 1st valve. Gb that high on a BBb tuba is the minor 7th harmonic using 1st valve (low AAb harmonic series), which is usually too flat. But, with your horn, try that as well. If the resonance of the horn is sharp to the natural harmonic, it may bring it into tune. Just one more thing to try.

In my community band we have a particular march in which the dogfight countermelody has in quick succession Eb - F - Gb etc. Since the key at that point is Eb minor, no one hears the Gb as being a little flat, and at quick step tempo it is much easier to play 1 - 0 - 1 than 1 - 0 - 23.

Second thing to try: if it is too flat as expected, try playing it with just 2nd valve with the 2nd valve slide pulled, as this is the minor 7th harmonic of the 2nd valve (low AA natural harmonic series), which plays a flat G (not a Gb). This might be another alternative.

Third thing to try: try to locate on the horn where the resonance is, and if it is close to a brace, have your tech relocate the brace to damp the resonance, so the true pitch comes through. I had to do this to my sousaphone: the bell was over-ringing a quarter-tone off everything, ruining centering, so I put a ring of golfer's lead tape around the edge of the bell next to the bead, like a Miraphone garland. Worked perfectly, centered up the entire range, including the false pedal Eb, D and Db. Now, I don't need a 4th valve, and low valve combinations are in tune having had the top loop on the 1st valve made into a slide by my tech on my request so I can adjust it with my left hand.

[brianf]

This is from a transcript (unpublished) of an interview Mr Jacobs did with Yamaha in the 80's. He is talking about an F sharp on a B flat tuba but this is the same as a G# on a C tuba.


"Players constantly miss upper F sharp we will say on the Bb tuba, sometimes simply because the note is flat and if they have good pitch recognition they are reaching for a higher note than actually exists on that instrument and very frequently will overshoot - and what do they do they wind up with one of the notes above it. This is easily corrected by having the ability to put the tubing back to the proper length. In other words, that would tune for that particular register. Most double Bb tubas seem to have a compromise type of intonation to where first valve slides are a little longer than we would really want for the proper use and third slides are usually a little longer and you get a compromise tuning to where the low B and C are only moderately sharp, but then the upper range usually you have moderately flat. It is better that you can tune accurately for both. "

[hurricane_harry]

i'll tell you what andy rodgers told me. sing it, if you can't sing it how do you expect to play it. if your good you should be able to get it in tune by adjusting your lips