A eupher furious because of oppression (read this sad story)

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:28 pm

Oppression? Ask the former subjects of Slobodan Milosevic or Saddam Hussein if they think you are oppressed.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:40 pm

EuphoniumDude wrote:
Oppression? Ask the former subjects of Slobodan Milosevic or Saddam Hussein if they think you are oppressed.
You are misinterpreting. I am merely saying how euphs and tubas are often not taken as seriously as some other sections. With all due respect, please do not put words in my mouth. I did not mean it like that.

With all due respect right back at you, you used the word oppressed.

Oppressed - to crush or burden by abuse of power or authority.

BopEuph · Post by **BopEuph** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:08 pm

euphba wrote:Me and a tuba player (rick) where playing duets/music together, a violinist comes in pissed off and said that the euphonium isn't a real instrument and should have been burned in a fireplace.

It was at that point you should have stated that it isn't the euphonium that is flammable, while looking hungrily at his violin. You then should give him that crazy look, as if you were trying to say "we can prove this later." Violin players are easy to set back down in their "throne," you just have to know how to do it.

Nick

SplatterTone · Post by **SplatterTone** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:30 pm

I actually am "weighed down" in the mind

I don't know man. Sounds kind of emo to me.

Leland · Post by **Leland** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:37 pm

I never liked how the Bach brasswind catalog listed tubas & euphs as "background brass". Maybe that mentality is why there hasn't ever been a notably good Bach tuba or euph.

Eh, whatever. They miss us when we're gone, and they know it.

quinterbourne · Post by **quinterbourne** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:39 pm

euphba wrote:I'm so glad I'm going to be a performance major on euph!!

Great for you! Unfortunately, at my university in Canada they don't allow people to take euphonium for performance, because it is not considered an "orchestral instrument." Heck, they allow saxophone,guitar and organ players into performance, but not euphonium. I understand each of these instruments occasionally plays in a couple of orchestral pieces, but so do we in Pictures at an Exhibition as well as Planets... but then again those instruments are technically considered "tenor tuba" or "french tuba" (although most orchestras use euphonium, just like they usually use tubas instead of ophelclides in Berlioz's Symphony Fantastique).

Kevin Hendrick · Post by **Kevin Hendrick** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:45 pm

SplatterTone wrote:
I actually am "weighed down" in the mind
I don't know man. Sounds kind of emo to me.

prototypedenNIS · Post by **prototypedenNIS** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:50 am

quinterbourne wrote:
euphba wrote:I'm so glad I'm going to be a performance major on euph!!
Great for you! Unfortunately, at my university in Canada they don't allow people to take euphonium for performance, because it is not considered an "orchestral instrument." Heck, they allow saxophone,guitar and organ players into performance, but not euphonium. I understand each of these instruments occasionally plays in a couple of orchestral pieces, but so do we in Pictures at an Exhibition as well as Planets... but then again those instruments are technically considered "tenor tuba" or "french tuba" (although most orchestras use euphonium, just like they usually use tubas instead of ophelclides in Berlioz's Symphony Fantastique).

I could be a performance major on euph... but I would still onlyhave the choice to study with the trumpet teacher or the Trombone teacher.

Though... I passively said to the Orchestra Conductor, as he was walking to the stairs, that if he needed a tuba or tenor tuba part for orchestra that I'd be willing to help out.

He Disappeared for 5 seconds into the stairs and came out saying "you have a tenor tuba?"

I'm pumped for this opportunity.

quinterbourne · Post by **quinterbourne** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:51 am

Mark wrote:
EuphoniumDude wrote:
Oppression? Ask the former subjects of Slobodan Milosevic or Saddam Hussein if they think you are oppressed.
You are misinterpreting. I am merely saying how euphs and tubas are often not taken as seriously as some other sections. With all due respect, please do not put words in my mouth. I did not mean it like that.
With all due respect right back at you, you used the word oppressed.

Opressed - to crush or burden by abuse of power or authority.

Give the boy a frickin' break, man. It's people like you who make everybody typing up a post afraid they're going to say something somebody will flip out about.

The poster is just a kid... clearly infered in his story. Kids these days don't always think of how each word they type may be misinterpreted by someone else. It's the internet, it lacks inflections which help people determine what the intentions are of other people.

Another common statement: Man, I got raped by that test. Should people stop saying that in case they may offend someone? How about Merry Christmas... now being turned into Happy Holidays. I hate it! People need to grow up and stop being so sensitive. Of course, I understand how some words need to be avoided in many circumstances (ie Nazi), I believe oppressed is definitely not one of them.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:03 am

If you play euphonium and want to feel "special", find a brass band to play with. No kidding.

quinterbourne · Post by **quinterbourne** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:53 am

tubaboy wrote:you have taken this lighthearted story, obviously using the word oppression as hyperbole, way to seriously. he was trying to point out that tubas are not taken seriously, but instead of seeing his point, you have chosen to just criticize him on word choice.

Here's to you Mark, for you are really upholding the reason of this message board, to put others down, and to not discuss topics relating to the Tuba or Euphonium.

hear, hear!

tubeast · Post by **tubeast** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:54 am

How Â´bout this one:

band director tells me he plans to feature me on StrauÃŸ horn concerto No. 1 for fall season.
I practise it BIG time to be ready when rehearsals start after summer break. (get a recording by Hermann Baumann, tape myself, practise a lot...) He hears me practise and comments encouragingly on it. We both figure it just might work.
After second rehearsal he figures the bandÂ´s not up to it and cancels the darned thing.

**** happens.

On the tenor-tuba-thing in orchestra:
Now, thatÂ´s clearly a question of definition. How about this: when buying a non-cylindrical tenor brass instrument, have the shop issue several receipts (invoices? Vocab ?) mentioning "Euphonium", "Tenor horn", "Baritone", "Tenor tuba" or whatever next to the price. Keep those in your case to prove THIS is what youÂ´re playing. Who are the conductors to know a difference ?

quinterbourne · Post by **quinterbourne** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:29 am

tubeast wrote:On the tenor-tuba-thing in orchestra:
Now, thatÂ´s clearly a question of definition. How about this: when buying a non-cylindrical tenor brass instrument, have the shop issue several receipts (invoices? Vocab ?) mentioning "Euphonium", "Tenor horn", "Baritone", "Tenor tuba" or whatever next to the price. Keep those in your case to prove THIS is what youÂ´re playing. Who are the conductors to know a difference ?

I don't know what other places define a "tenor horn" as but in Canada, generally, a tenor horn more like a bass trumpet - usually the instrument french horn players use when MARCHING. Similar to a mellophone... but reshaped in trumpet form. Marching brass groups here would have trumpets (soprano+alto), tenor horn (baritone), trombone (tenor) and contras (bass).

I do agree that the differences between a euphonium and baritone are decided when the manufacturer puts the label on it, I agree with you on that point. However, I still feel that the tenor tuba is something different.

You'll see "euphoniums" and "baritones" in a wind ensemble, but not a tenor tuba, that's not the sound that is desired.

I don't know much about the tenor tuba, but I do know that it has a much different sound than a euphonium/baritone. It's hard to explain, but the euphonium/baritone has an extremely unique sound that is unlike any other brass instrument in the orchestra. The tenor tuba sound is, in my opinion, something more suited for the orchestra - better serves it's function as a high tuba or a fifth french horn. Although a euphonium is an excelling blending instrument, it stands out too much on it's own in an orchestra, again in my opinion.

Again, it's just my opinion here folks and I am totally cool with you guys having your own opinions. Personally, if I owned a tenor tuba and a euphonium - I would play the tenor tuba in orchestra (Ein Heldenleben, Don Quixotte, Exhibition and Planets) and the euphonium in the brass band/wind ensemble setting. What would you guys recommend for tuba quartet... tenor tuba or euphonium?

tuba kitchen · Post by **tuba kitchen** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:50 am

why don't you guys just avoid the band director, get a few more pieces together and play a concert in a church or someplace else in your community. it sounds like a fun project!

tubeast · Post by **tubeast** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:08 am

Tuba kitchen has a point, there.
Plus, at least this should benefit your performance and consequently your grade in music (band IS a graded class in your school, and you DID put in extra effort on request by the teacher, didnÂ´t you?) so embrace it. Plus, spending some time during lunch hour with stuff you enjoy doing with buddies is ALWAYS good, whether itÂ´s playing basketball or quartet.

finnbogi · Post by **finnbogi** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:05 am

quinterbourne wrote:I don't know what other places define a "tenor horn" as but in Canada, generally, a tenor horn more like a bass trumpet - usually the instrument french horn players use when MARCHING. Similar to a mellophone... but reshaped in trumpet form. Marching brass groups here would have trumpets (soprano+alto), tenor horn (baritone), trombone (tenor) and contras (bass).

This is different in Iceland, I believe our nomenclature is copied from German. What the English-speaking world calls euphonium is called baritone horn, a tenor horn is pitched at the same B flat but has smaller bore and is less conical - and is called baritone in English.
What the English call tenor horn, we call an alto horn - it is pitced in E flat like a mellophone and typically looks like a 3/4 size tenor horn.

quinterbourne wrote:I don't know much about the tenor tuba, but I do know that it has a much different sound than a euphonium/baritone. It's hard to explain, but the euphonium/baritone has an extremely unique sound that is unlike any other brass instrument in the orchestra. The tenor tuba sound is, in my opinion, something more suited for the orchestra - better serves it's function as a high tuba or a fifth french horn. Although a euphonium is an excelling blending instrument, it stands out too much on it's own in an orchestra, again in my opinion.

As I am principally a tuba player and only dabble on euphonium, I am no expert on this, but I have always considered tenor tuba to be a collective term for conical instruments pitched in the vicinity of the "trombone B flat". This would include the euphonium in B flat and the French C tuba, amongst other instruments.
Every time I have seen a tenor tuba played in orchestra, the actual horns played have been euphonia. (In Mahler 7, the score says Tenorhorn in B, whereas Strauss requests Tenortuba in B for Ein Heldenleben.) If there is a difference in sound, it can most probably be ascribed to a difference in playing style.

Highams · Post by **Highams** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:07 am

I agree, you will get over this, and be better for it, sometimes you can't educate those people!

Carry on regardless, do your own thing and enjoy it. Put on your own show, just for fun, get together with friends, it's more rewarding and you will reap the benefits and be a better musician.

Good luck.

CB

TubaRay · Post by **TubaRay** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:35 am

I have a different take on Scott's post. I don't think this was entirely about euphoniums and tubas. It may have played a part, but I believe the main point here is that the director was apparently unwilling to be honest with you until he had to do so. For whatever his reasons(yes, euph & tubas bias is possible), he didn't want to include you on the performance. I believe his not telling you before the concert was where he went wrong. Remember, the director gets to make the call on what is on the program.

With all of this, it is obvious that he could have included you. He chose not to do it. It sounds to me as if he simply handled this very poorly. If he was truly biased, all he had to do in the first place was to say no. I can understand why you are so unhappy.

Daryl Fletcher · Post by **Daryl Fletcher** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:32 am

I think that Ray is right about this. In general, this kind of thing tends to get better after high school, or at least that has been my experience. The most important thing is not to get discouraged and to keep trying.

I also like tuba kitchen's suggestion. I think that it's very possible that you could find an even more appreciative audience somewhere else. Play for people who might not normally attend a high school band concert. Build up your repertoire. Put on a short concert at the local nursing home or anywhere else that people tend to get forgotten about this time of year. Play anywhere and everywhere you get a chance.

SplatterTone · Post by **SplatterTone** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:02 am

Early this year, we had the pleasure of the St. Olaf College band performing locally in the acoustically fine church. This is a great, 4-tuba band. As part of the program, there was ... a ... <moment of suspense> ... euphonium solo! It was just the euphemist, standing out in front. No band. Nothing but euphonium. And a lovely solo it was.

So there is one place that appreciates the horn. Grab your suntan lotion and head to Northfield, Minnesota.