Yamaha 321 euphonium 5 valve conversion

[Bob Mosso]

Great idea! Put me on the list to "notify when available".

In an ideal world I'd like an independent short major 3rd that replaces the main tuning slide... in silver.

I haven't given a lot of thought to dependent valves, long whole-step vs. long half-step....
If it were independent my preference would be short major 3rd, long whole, then long half. I'll work thru all the dependent fingerings (when I have time) to see if that changes my preferences.

Does it still fit in the Yamaha case without removing the 5th valve?

There are many potential buyers (I am one), with a high price you will only sell to an elite few, with a low price you can sell to the masses.

And, put one of those long 3rd slides into my shopping cart.

Regards,
Bob

[Bob Mosso]

Here are some pics of the old Yamaha version. The Ferguson version has fewer bends, it should be less stuffy. Fewer bends and larger radii (open wrap) are always better.

[MaryAnn]

Not to abscond with the thread, but can someone tell me why the 4th slide on my King 2280 is so incredibly long? I've given up trying to empty it during concerts because of the contortions I have to go through to get it in and out. It must be nearly a foot long! Why? It doesn't need, for me anyway, to be pulled out anywhere near that much to get 4+ notes in tune. Or maybe it does and I'm just so accustomed to lipping the pitches that I haven't realized I could do it differently. But then the slide would run into my thigh....

MA

[tbn.al]

You can pull it far enough to get the Eb with 4 only which gives you a D with 14, Db 234, C134, B1234. It is then possible to have the fully chromatic scale from the pedal E up by using the 3rd valve kicker for E and F just below the staff. I have to use my TT MP to play that low though.

[pgym]

Not to abscond with the thread, but can someone tell me why the 4th slide on my King 2280 is so incredibly long? I've given up trying to empty it during concerts because of the contortions I have to go through to get it in and out. It must be nearly a foot long! Why? It doesn't need, for me anyway, to be pulled out anywhere near that much to get 4+ notes in tune. Or maybe it does and I'm just so accustomed to lipping the pitches that I haven't realized I could do it differently. But then the slide would run into my thigh....

MA

Enlightenment may be found [url=http://www.dwerden.com/talk/forum/messa ... eadid=2617]here[/l].

[J.c. Sherman]

"dkstone" on that site knows his stuff.

All the arguments on that thread about the 2280 being a mid-level/non-professional instrument are hogwash; it's like claiming a 4-valve Alex isn't professional because it doesn't have a 5th valve. And I've heard 2280's in the Cleveland Orchestra sounding wonderful... huge and wonderful... for years and years.

"dkstone" said it well, but the King is played much like a 3-valve trumpet, third-valve tuning and all. The fourth comes into play Eb and down. It can also be played more conventionally, giving you back some trills and what; but in the designed tuning, the Low C is the most open on the market.

Put me down for wanting those 5th valves out there, and you can skip the 2280 ; )

J.c.S.

[Bob Kolada]

I've always wondered why the 2280 didn't have the kicker on the 4th slide, even though I suspect it would stop at C. But now it makes sense!

How does the kicker work? I've always wanted one on my 3 valve Amati to avoid actually handling the slide with my left hand while playing and holding the instrument with the left!

I have to use my TT MP to play that low though.

Nothing wrong with that!
Do you mean your shaved 30E or an actual tenor tuba mouthpiece?

[bisontuba]

HI-
Yamaha 321 euphs are nice instruments, but just get a Schiller Elite Comp Euph and/or a W. Nirschl Euph--better instruments and cheaper!
Welcome to the 21st Century.
mark

[Bob Kolada]

J.c., you know you could add a 6th valve as a flat half step.

[tclements]

Yamaha used to sell these things for $125. I have two of them sitting in a drawer here. This makes the horn a wonderful solo horn and is a viable alternative to the compensating system. I am surprised someone hasn't done this sooner. Well done!

[J.c. Sherman]

Can I buy one at cost? ; )

J.c.

[Ferguson]

Not sure what the holdup is. I've ordered the first run, but have received nothing yet.

SF

[fshalor]

I almost forgot about these. I have one sitting in a box desoildered somewhere. (Someone toyed with it as a learning experience. )

The one I played with (intact) was quite interesting.

I still think a good YEP-321 + Wick 4AY + a 5th dependent unit is one of the most flexible and enjoyable euphonium experiences out there.

[Ferguson]

I have a (nearly) final prototype of the 5th rotor for the Yamaha 321.

Is there any reason to have the option for a flat half step tuning, or is flat whole step, like on a German tuba, the way to go?

It hadn't occurred to me that the original Yamaha part didn't quite pull to a flat whole step to get the low Eb in tune fingered 4-5.

If we make this in the whole step length, it would have to be cut to work for a low E fingered 4-5, which could be done by client request.

Thoughts?

Ferguson

[tclements]

Make it a flat whole step so low Eb can be played 4&5, in tune.

[tclements]

Low note fingerings (assuming 5th valve is IN the 4th valve tubing) & LONG whole tone 5th valve:

Low Eb - 45
Low D - 234
Low Db - 345
Low C - 2345 (slightly sharp)
Low B - 12345

[Ferguson]

I agree with Tony.

I was just wondering if there are 1/2 step 5th valve fans. I have an Alex tenor tuba that is tuned this way, but also has a long whole step 5th slide.

I like the longer slide to enable a low B, and some of the other notes can be fingered with fewer valves engaged than is possible with a 1/2 step 5th slide.

Best,

Ferguson

[J.c. Sherman]

Good one Bloke!

As for the flat 1/2 step tuning; the only really good reason for this - and it's a good reason, is a balls-on B natural. Low B will be sharp in this configuration, but low Bs are damn rare in Euph music and C is fine; but a flat whole step means you still have a sharp B on the staff.

When I got mine, it had a flat 1/2 step and sleaves added from a bass trombone for a flat whole step too. Not a bad option (like the Eb/D option on a lot of bass bones). Build 'em in +1/2 with the sleaves for an extra $50.

J.c.S.

[tclements]

There is merit in making the part so the end user has the option. It can't be that expensive to make it a long 1/2 step, and include a couple of sleeves to make it longer. Or, offer two options: with or without the sleeves.

[Ferguson]

The fifth rotor. It's finished at last.

It's hard to see the linkage and finger paddle in these pics, but it's most apparent in the third one. You reach through from the front with your left thumb. I'll get a pic of the rotor assembly by itself at some point. It's tuned to a flat whole step, so low Eb is 4+5, D 2+3+4, Db 1+3+4 or 3+4+5, C 2+3+4+5, B 1+2+3+4+5. I'm also working to get a small run of the 321 euphoniums available with large shank receiver.









Best,

Ferguson