Looking for a good horn.

[hup_d_dup]

BBb tends to have a little fuzz in the sound compared to CC.

Fuzz in the sound!? That sounds bad! I certainly don't want fuzz in the sound, even a little bit!

On the other hand, a lot of players have BBb tubas, more than CC. Maybe they play the BBbs because they want a little more fuzz!

Hup

[MartyNeilan]

If I were in your position, I'd seriously consider the Mirafone 184 5 valve CC which is listed here under ebay. It looks like it would be available in your price range.

I would actually disagree. While the 184 is fun for solos and very small ensembles (quintets, etc) it will not put the fat round sound under a band or other large group that the tuba is called upon to do. Most music teachers wind up playing in one or more groups, and they will be looking for a tuba that sounds like a tuba.
Don't get me wrong, the 184 is a great second or third tuba, but once you graduate you will probably not have the means to buy another couple of horns right away, and you will want something more fullsized than a vintage 184.

[Levaix]

BBb tends to have a little fuzz in the sound compared to CC.

Fuzz in the sound!? That sounds bad! I certainly don't want fuzz in the sound, even a little bit!

On the other hand, a lot of players have BBb tubas, more than CC. Maybe they play the BBbs because they want a little more fuzz!

Hup

It's not as bad as it sounds, I promise. As hrender mentioned, the difference between keys can be well within the range of the difference between two horns of the same key. A bad horn is going to be bad whatever the key, and a good one will still be good. It's just a matter of finding what fits you best.

(Although in my opinion you'll have a larger choice of good horns if you go with CC, just because that's what manufacturers perceive the professional market wants. More top-level BBb's are being produced lately compared to before, it'll just take a while to catch up.)

[Roger Lewis]

My recommendation would be to let your ears help with the decision. Remember, in Germany and Austria as well as Russia and many other European countries, the BBb (rotary only) is considered the only professional tuba. If you show up at an audition with a piston horn or a CC, you will probably not even get a chance to show how good you are as that horn doesn't fit their "model". Listen to the New York Philharmonic, the Chicago Symphony and any other American Orchestras. Then compare this sound to the Berlin Philharmonic and the Vienna Philharmonic and many of the other orchestras around Germanic Europe and get a feel for how a BBb, when played well, works in the ensemble.

Actually, many of the big orchestral tuba parts were written with a BBb tuba in mind, Wagner, Mahler, Tchaikovsky, Rimsky-Korsakov, etc. There are a few high end players that are using BBb more and more for many of these works as they feel the BBb does tend to fit in better.

A CC has a bit tighter sound where a BBb may have just a tad more depth to it. I also look at the overtones. You are in a section with Bb trombones, horns in F and in many cases trumpets in Bb. Things just might line up just a little better in this situation with a BBb tuba rather than a CC. Personally I use a BBb for some things but a CC more often.

These are my opinions, based on what I've seen and on the quantities of instruments sold in various countries. Originally the CC tubas were made mainly for American players and were considered "professional" instruments here. In Germany, a professional instrument is in BBb.

Just an observation helping to muddy up the waters a bit.

Roger

[Bob Kolada]

Roger, what Bb do you use?

[theatomizer13]

Thanks everyone for your insight. I taking what you have all said in mind, I think that BBb And CC doesnt matter, but what the horn sounds like instead (as some of you have stated). So I guess I am left to one more question that I understand I need to make, but it is nice to have feedback from such knowledgable sources, and that is what tuba- or rather what Tubas would be acceptable as to the fact that i will probably get a used horn. I really like the St. Petersburg, I love the tone that it can produce. However I like a Miraphone that I am playing with my school. It is a 5 valve CC I think a 5/4 size. It plays lows beautiful and it is amazingly easy to play quiet. I have not liked any of the other miraphones that i have played (some dinky 4 valve BBb and one 184 5 valve C (the little one you talked about earlier.) But i am open to all the suggestions there are..


What do you think about Yamaha ?

Thanks Jared

[Roger Lewis]

My personal BBb is a Miraphone 1291 5 valve model (yes, a piston horn). I believe it was the very first one they made after the prototype. It is a joy to play and has a really warm and easy to play low register. If I had the money (and the space) I would probably be standing in line for one of the new Miraphone Siegfried’s, but the wife would kill me.

I would also suggest that, since you plan to pursue playing in college, that you find the school(s) that you want to attend and then ask the teachers in those institutions what horn they would want you to show up playing. Some folks can be very specific as to what horn you should be playing, but since they are going to be with you potentially for 4 years, you might want to show up with something that makes them happy and that you can play well.

I had one of the first Yamaha 621S F tubas they made, and I loved the way it played, but I absolutely hated the sound of it. It just didn't really work for the way I play. Since I didn't like how I sounded, I would only drag it out when I had to for an upcoming performance. Find a horn that you love to listen to yourself play.

Roger

[Gilligan]

BBb tends to have a little fuzz in the sound compared to CC.

Ahh Bull....

A fuzz or airy quality in your tone will come from a bad buzz quality in the mouthpiece or a bad mouthpiece fit/gap in the horn and can exist equally in any and all horns. Unless you are dealing with some sort of mechanical problem, most of the time it, is from a bad match between the horn, the mouthpiece and your embouchure or an immature embouchure. This is why you find players on mouthpiece searches all the time on this site.

Having played BBb, CC and Eb over the years I'd would recommend staying away from trying to transition from the BBb into the CC. The only advantage I know of in making the transition is in the ease of fingering runs when you are stuck playing in those notorious sharp key keys so often encountered in an orchestral setting. You can find great horns with fantastic sound characteristics that match or beat the CC, in both Eb and BBb. A large 5/4 Eb would probably be the most versatile horn you could buy. You will be able to drop down into the deep full BBb characteristics of a tuba by pressing the 4th valve and still have the light characteristic need for solo or small groups the rest of the time.

If you are playing orchestral music all the time it makes sense to have a CC, but I have never found any advantage in having taken up the CC while playing American music in an Army Band, or in any American Wind Ensemble or in British style brass bands or in any Dixieland Bands. In the teaching environment you will have little need for the CC. Taking up the CC while I was at the Military School of Music was a massive waste of my time and energy. Unless you intend to be playing at the professional symphony level, except for some preparatory collegiate playing for the symphony scene, you won't have any need to ever be playing the CC.

As a side note… in every audition I have ever been through, I was never asked what equipment I was using. They were only interested in my technical ability and quality of my sound that was actually reaching them in their seats.

[theatomizer13]

I want to get a new horn because I want to. I am not neccesarily in any rush to get one, but I want to start looking and getting familiar with what i want in my tuba and some good brands. That way if I see a Deal, I can be ready to jump on it. The biggest reason I want one is that I want to play because I think it is fun, and a good way to relax and blow off steam.... -or the roof lol. I am 21 and I want a "good" tuba because i find no reason to buy a cheap-o tuba, especially if it is going to be the only one i am going to really have.

Thanks again everyone for your feedback i enjoy all the different points of view and experience.

[toobagrowl]

I really like the St. Petersburg, I love the tone that it can produce. However I like a Miraphone that I am playing with my school. It is a 5 valve CC I think a 5/4 size. It plays lows beautiful and it is amazingly easy to play quiet. I have not liked any of the other miraphones that i have played (some dinky 4 valve BBb and one 184 5 valve C (the little one you talked about earlier.) But i am open to all the suggestions there are..


What do you think about Yamaha ?

Thanks Jared

Yeah, the St. Petes give a nice big dark sound for their size. Very in-tune and responsive too. But people still give them flack for their thin metal and finish and valves. But the newer ones (last 6-7 years) have the better valves and you can get them in lacquer finish if you want...

Yamahas have a more "bland" sound than most other tubas, imo. Very consistent though and pricey.

We have so many options of tubas now, new and old. There is something for everyone. The difference in size and style/shape trumps key of tuba. With that said, if you take the same/similar model of tubas in CC and BBb and play them side by side there is a small difference. The BBb model will have a slightly richer/darker/smoother sound in comparison. The CC model will have slightly quicker/more immediate response and have a more 'punchy' or 'articulated' sound.

[Levaix]

Thanks everyone for your insight. I taking what you have all said in mind, I think that BBb And CC doesnt matter, but what the horn sounds like instead (as some of you have stated). So I guess I am left to one more question that I understand I need to make, but it is nice to have feedback from such knowledgable sources, and that is what tuba- or rather what Tubas would be acceptable as to the fact that i will probably get a used horn. I really like the St. Petersburg, I love the tone that it can produce. However I like a Miraphone that I am playing with my school. It is a 5 valve CC I think a 5/4 size. It plays lows beautiful and it is amazingly easy to play quiet. I have not liked any of the other miraphones that i have played (some dinky 4 valve BBb and one 184 5 valve C (the little one you talked about earlier.) But i am open to all the suggestions there are..


What do you think about Yamaha ?

Thanks Jared

I haven't much cared for the Yamahas I've played. One upright Eb 4 valve (which was miserable) and a 4 rotor BBb (which was average).

If you can find one of those old BBb German stencils, you'll be happy with it. I like mine more than any of the Miraphone 186's I've played, and it's an extremely versatile and fun tuba. Plus you'll generally find them for under $2000.

[ghmerrill]

(Anyone else noticing a pattern of new posters "seeking purchase advice"
who are then given immediate advice from...fans of a certain supply chain?)

Yeah, I have to agree. The constant pimping for Miraphone is really outrageous.

[bort]

Yeah, I have to agree. The constant pimping for Miraphone is really outrageous.

HA! Good one!

[lowtones425]

Hello OP,

If you happened to come across some extra coin, I would highly recommend looking into a used Rudolf Meinl 3/4 CC tuba. All the tuba you'll ever need, small enough to be an all around horn (slightly more compact than a 186 BBb) and they are usually fabulous horns that play like heaven. Mine is a vintage-ish one, about 20 years old. I absolutely love it, and if you speak to nearly any Rudy owner they will likely have nothing but good things to say.

In any case, don't hurry to buy a horn right away, try to get something really nice that will give you a feeling of security. Often, you won't find your perfect tuba, rather it will find you!

Good luck!