King CC "reverse rotor" tuba (Bill Bell's tuba)

[MikeMason]

you'll notice the carefully chosen "york inspired" in my question.which to me means a big fat bell with big fat bows,4 .750 front pistons /1 rotor,and a somewhat "pillowy" sound.

[MaryAnn]

I am the former owner of Brass Arts Unlimited in Baltimore, Maryland. I did very esoteric repairs and modifications to instruments over the years. Since I sold the place, I have no where to work at present. Once I can get a suitable work area and money to finance the project, my pet project is to cut an old model King 2141 BBb tuba to a CC and add a set of Meinl Weston rotary valves and re-invent the wheel.

I think I bought a couple of french horn flippers from you some years ago, after I bought my horn and it had one of your flippers on it. Nice work, much better than those duck foot things a lot of people use.

MA

[kathott]

Hello,
What are the specs. on this instrument?
Is it a similar style of sound to the old Meinl Weston
CC's which William Bell/Novotny used?
Kathott

[Haugan]

As similar as the King CC and the "Bell Model" are, it is actually somewhat puzzling as to why two such similar horns might play so differently. They both have the same bore size (@ .687 in.) and although they have a similar (though not exact) taper and bell size, I find the King to be a far superior instrument (dispite the fact that the M-W is arguably a good instrument). I speak from experience; as I owned a Bell Model MW for a number of years, and had many occasions to compare the two in a great variety of playing situations. It is my belief that the superiority of the King could well be the result of manufacturing techniques (spun bell & handmade parts vs. hydraulically made parts) as well as materials, "virgin" brass vs. modern (most likley recycled) brass. Anyone familiar with older instruments can attest to the difference in response between older brass and the brass currently used by [most] manufacturers today. Virgin brass is still available today, but the last time I checked prices (@ 10 years ago) the price of a 4x8 ft. sheet of "virgin" brass was some 5 times more expensive than regular (recycled) sheet brass. There are some "impurities" (i.e. lead, tin, and other metals inherent in the recycling process) and they tend to make modern brass somewhat more brittle than the brass used in the past to make musical instruments. In addition, MY particular MW Bell model didn't have the detachable bell collar and had a heavy coat of epoxy laquer, whereas my King has the collar as well as a heavy double silver plate that I had put on the horn that (seems to) make it play heavier as well as more "pliable" to any nuance that I might wish to create. I hope this gives some insight and/or answers some of the questions regarding the difference between these two tubas. -Haugan p.s. To my knowledge, neither Bell, Novotny, or Torchinsky ever performed much on the M-W "Bell Model" outside of Meinl-Weston advertising; all three preferred their OWN King tubas.

[Chuck Jackson]

Actually, I beg to differ. It is VERY apparent that Mr. Novotny was using a Meinl on the later (1965 forward) Young Peoples Concerts. The give away is that the valves don't wrap around like the close-ups of him playing the King. This is very evident in their performance of Sensemaya. Just clarifying. Joe Novotny could probably make a garden hose sound good.

Chuck

[Travelman]

With all the discussion, what would one of these originals in good playing condition be worth?[/img]

[Haugan]

My apologies, Chuck. Evidently Novotny DID use the Bell Model on certain occasions. My only personal contact with Mr. Novotny was to take a "lesson" with him when the NYP came through Madison in 1972 (or 3?). I called him up in his hotel room to ask if he would be willing to give a lesson, and rather than give an actual lesson he took me out for breakfast the morning after the NYP concert in Madison. For whatever reason, he was [back to?] playing the King at that time. The "breakfast session" was great. I was able to do an extensive "interview" with him on a myriad of topics, not unlike the 1976 interview I did with Arnold Jacobs for the Winter 1977 T.U.B.A. journal. He gave me all kinds of valuable information and was a super-nice guy, patiently and caringly giving me answers to all the questions a (somewhat brazen) 17 year old kid might venture to ask. I spent 2 hours with him, and got a LOT of information out of him - much like the many lessons I was yet to have with Arnold Jacobs. I often wonder what it would have been like to be one of his students. I think his playing abilities were (and are) largely overlooked and unappreciated due to his modest and unassuming nature - in his kindness he seemed to be devoid of any ego whatsoever. As to his playing abilities, a Novotny student told me of going to his apartment in NYC for a lesson and hearing Novotny flawlessly "fly through" Wilder's "Effie chases a monkey" through the apt. door only to enter the apartment and have Novotny modestly state that he'de been "having a look" at this new Wilder solo. Arnold was a kind and caring man, but I never got the feeling that I wasn't in the presence of royalty when I was around him; although that was undoubtedly more my fault than his - it was hard to spend time around him or hear him play without some sense of wonder at his abilities and/or the depth of his knowledge. As to the post on the King's worth, any good antique dealer can tell you that "anything with any kind of nostalgic or historic value is worth whatever you can get for it". Mr. Torchinsky had his insured for $11,000.oo when I last spoke to him; I don't know what he sold it for (to a former student?) although knowing Mr. T's generosity it wasn't THAT much. I consider mine more-or-less irreplacable due to it's unique qualities, but in it's own (though admittedly different) way I would venture to say it is of comparable value to the older Yorks - with the exception perhaps of the two owned by the Chicago Symphony. Before closing this post out, I would like to encourage anyone who had contact with Mr. Novotny as a student, collegue, or just in passing to post a few words about what seemed to me to be a truely unique indivdual - I am sure the TubeNet community would be interested in hearing more about the man who had the distinction of following Bill Bell in the NYP. I can sort of kick the story off - A very dear friend of mine's grandfather, John Sovinec, conducted the "Chicago Boy's Club Band" for some 60 years. When a guest at his home some 20 years ago, he informed me (after the tragic news that he had sold "all those old Yorks and Conns" that the CBCB had used for @ $500.oo each the previous year) that he had "started out" "little Joey Novotny" on tuba. Small world. -Haugan