SMALLER TUBA FOR 'OLD' MAN

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 3:20 am

If you are willing to consider rotary valves, then a Cerveny might suite your requirements.

http://www.amati.cz/english/production/ ... _Tubas.htm

I tried a second hand 6/4 Cerveny BBb earlier this year and it had a great sound, but was incredibly light for a big tuba.

BTW I understand rotary tubas are generally lighter than the equivalent piston versions, but why should that be so?

tbn.al · Post by **tbn.al** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:32 am

I am 60 and play in the same type ensembles. If you are wedded to BBb as I am you really have few choices. I looked for 5 years for my perfect instrument and never found it. My best option is a Miraphone 184. Same Miraphone sound, but a bit lighter, with a .705 bore and less than 16 lbs. I have played the Lidl at Lee's and liked it a lot. If you want to stay with piston horns, particularly front action, the list gets smaller. I recently tried a Yamaha 621 BBb and almost switched, ...almost. Also an older Olds 4 valve 3/4 or 5/8, whatever they call it would be in my opinion the closest thing to your York. Again relatively rare. Good luck on your quest. I'm glad mine is over.

Teubonium · Post by **Teubonium** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 12:45 pm

Howdy Colorful Colorado neighbor,

I am 66 with some arthritis in my back. I recently sought out a lighter horn that would serve me well in community bands and 5tets.
I got a Meinl-Weston 2141 EEb 5 valve. .748 bore, 17" bell, and weighs about 17 lbs. (on my bathroom scale). It holds its own in large concert bands, is easy to handle, I like its big sound, and the ergonomics are good (for me, YMMV). I just can't praise this horn enough.

sloan · Post by **sloan** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:56 pm

Both of the tubas in my music room probably qualify as "smaller and lighter" than your York Master bell front, but only one will give you anything close to the same sound.

The new King 2341 is officially a 4/4, and delivers a big sound. it's not exactly "tiny" - but it's certainly "small". It might not be "smaller enough" to justify the expense. I have a wheeled case that is fairly large...and that I haven't used in years. In a gig bag, it's just big enough that I prefer to use the backpack straps rather than carry it one-handed if I'm carrying it further than across the parking lot. CAUTION: the 2341 sound is of the "enveloping" type rather than the "penetrating" type.

The Yamaha 621 is a 3/4. It might be difficult to carry your 45-piece ensemble with it, though - "there is no replacement for displacement". Also, it's now very expensive when purchased new, and there don't seem to be very many on the "used" market (this might be it's strongest recommendation - the scarcity is NOT because they fall apart; the build quality is very impressive). Like me, I think most owners are holding onto theirs against the day when they need a good "tiny tuba". I've had mine for 10 years and you can have mine when you pry it from my cold dead fingers. The sound is (relatively speaking) more "penetrating" than "enveloping", but the absolute usable volume is noticeably small. When I switched from the 621 to the 2341 I was often the only tuba in a 50-piece band, and on the first rehearsal with the 2341 I got several comments on how much my sound had "improved". I've improved enough since then so that I *think* I could carry that group with the 621 (with a reasonable sound)...but it would require *work*. With the 2341, it's not an issue.

In a gig bag, the Yamaha 621 is hardly bigger than a Euphonium in a standard case. With a Blue Note strap, it's easier to play than a trombone.

tubatooter1940 · Post by **tubatooter1940** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 6:56 pm

I'm 65 and geezerhood is staring me right in the face.

After 40 years of Bb horns. I copped a Russian Army Eb for $10 that played enough for me to appreciate how well that range matched up with John Reno, my lead singer (low tenor-high baritone).
I got my 1940 King Eb three valve-good false tones, a heavy horn with a 24 inch recording bell, cheap off E-Bay.
It was an easy transition from Bb. I play it in bars on a full-support stand so alls I got to do is lug it in and out to the van and strap it in (no case).
I can play bass lines right down on the bottom with the occasional false tone. Jumping up an octave to solo, the darn thing sings so pretty.

Dennis Gray
tubatooter1940
www.johnreno.com/

ken k · Post by **ken k** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:31 pm

meinl-Weston 18,
great 3/4 BBb 4 valved rotary horn.

The small Czeveny mentioned above is nice too if you get a good one. They are also branded as Musica.

ken k

Chriss2760 · Post by **Chriss2760** » Mon Dec 04, 2006 11:37 pm

The sound is (relatively speaking) more "penetrating" than "enveloping

Well said. If you are looking for a sound similar to your York Master, the Yamaha isn't the horn you are looking for. It's tight (sounding and handling) and very fast in response (at the expense of resonance.) But it's a heck of a dixieland/jazz-in-general horn. You may want to watch for a Miraphone 184, maybe in Eb. Dan?

chipster55 · Post by **chipster55** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:33 am

I'm an old fart at 51 who plays a 3/4 Amati ABB323, .640, 16" bell. It's sufficient for an "economy" horn and light enough to play while standing. I've found that the Helleberg mouthpiece gets the air through it a lot better than the Bach 18 & 24 I previously used.

dunelandmusic · Post by **dunelandmusic** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:47 pm

If you can find one, an older York, either Bb or Eb with a 19-20 inch bell, a 3 valve Eb would be lighter with a good sound.
They made some 4 valve Bb's that were nearly identical in size to the Eb.

How a bout a Conn 5J ? a modern horn, smaller size, not too heavy

http://www.tubanews.com/instrument223.html

pjv · Post by **pjv** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:18 pm

I've owned a Yamaha 621 and own a 2J now. Even if one is looking for a lighter tuba per pound, I question as to whether going from a 5/4 horn to a 3/4 horn would work. Ensemble-wise, a 4/4 horn can do the work of a 5/4 horn, but a 3/4 is most probably too direct and punchy.

If your looking for a light horn but are still in love with that wide 5/4 sound, I'd try the euro-style soft metal instruments.

Good luck!

r smith · Post by **r smith** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:45 pm

Re 5/4 vs 3/4. You will never get the same full sound from a 3/4 instrument if you are used to the sound that a 5/4 produces. If you are getting on in age as all of us are (over65) you have to decide what is more important for the type of playing you are doing. It may be more important to you to play a 3/4 instrument & be able to carry it around & not break your back. I have found that a GOOD 3/4 size instrument with a large cup mouthpiece & lots of air can produce a full enough sound for a 45 piece Concert Band.

r smith · Post by **r smith** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:39 am

To Minstrelboy. I hope all the information that everyone has replied to has helped you.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:15 am

Congrats!

dtemp · Post by **dtemp** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:55 am

I used to have a 686 in college. I sold it to fund the 2000, but I would be lying if I said I didn't miss my Cerveny every now and then. I really dug it's playability, even if it was a little thin ( I once dented it with my thumb trying to pull a dry tuning slide ). Great horn, just be careful with her

IkeH · Post by **IkeH** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:08 pm

A vote for the Piggy here. If you can find a GOOD one, preferably older. I have a CC from the 60's I think. All you have to do is "think" air and it makes a sound. A big one too. And never had a lighter horn.

Ike

Jesse Brook · Post by **Jesse Brook** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:16 pm

I use a Yamaha YEB-321, which does fine and has a good sound. You can also find them cheap, at about $2000 or less. I got mine for $2000 almost a decade ago, and that in Canadian funds, so I think one in the US should be dirt cheap.