Hirsbrunner HB-50

[Casey Tucker]

i kinda know what you're going through. I'm a freshman in college and i'm looking to upgrade to a larger horn. but here is my situation:
i play on a PT20-PS (i'll talk about that in a minute) and im looking into buying an F for quintet, gigs and solo literature. after i get the F i'll upgrade to a larger CC as my main AXE for orchestra and wind ensemble. now some insight on my PT. the horn itself is large for a 4/4 in sound but sized just right for the classification. with the bell flare and size it projects better than any other 4/4 that i've ever played it against (HB-21, PT606, anything Miraphone except for the 1292 which was similar, etc.) but it's never too heavy to bring into a small ensemble like a quintet or brass band. the horn is an AMAZING all around horn. i'm buying the F for higher faster solo and quintet literature (wow, i sound like a trumpet ) i played on a Yorkbrunner at TMEA and, yes, it was impressive but nothing a college student would really ever need. it had great sound and projection but it's just something a college ensemble doesn't really need. rather, i would suggest the PT-20(P,S,PS), a Mira 1292, or a MW 2145. all are very consistent horns and can serve a multitude of situations. if you want something bigger check out the PT-6 or the MW THOR (that's what im looking to upgrading to) and even then these horns might be a little overpowering for the smaller ensembles. in the end it comes down to what think is best for you. i'm only making suggestions based on what i play and have played. the best of luck to you in your journey to purchasing a horn.

-casey

[Casey Tucker]

oh and by the way, your old director, Mr. Velez, is here at Sam teaching. he's a great guy.

[KenS]

I agree with the others... check out some of the other horns available...

One that interests me is:

viewtopic.php?t=19814

but then I already have one... (they are nice horns)

KenS

[Z-Tuba Dude]

A Yorkbrunner can be a GREAT axe! The horn that I am most familiar with, has a beautiful tone, plays well in tune, and has a HUGE, clear sound!

That being said, I don't get to take it out too often. You have to be playing in a pretty large ensemble to justfy assaulting the group with a 6/4 horn. While you don't have to play loudly on it, the tendency is that you will play louder on it, than you would on a smaller horn, if only because it magnifies everything that you do, that much more than a 4/4.

I agree with those folks who are encouraging you to focus on getting a QUALITY horn, not just getting a 6/4 (specifically, a Yorkbrunner), just for the sake of owning one.

6/4 horns should be owned in addition to a quality 4/4, not instead of!

Just my $0.02.....

[Dylan King]

While you don't have to play loudly on it, the tendency is that you will play louder on it, than you would on a smaller horn, if only because it magnifies everything that you do, that much more than a 4/4.

Quite true, although I do think that once one "gets to know" their 6/4 instrument it is possible to play even softer than a much smaller German style tuba. It isn't natural to hold back with a beast on your lap, but if done properly it can have a quiet whispering sound and can blend with even the smallest of ensembles.

One thing that's for sure is the higher the ceiling, the better the BAT is going to sound. In a standard 10-12 foot room indoors, there just isn't enough space for BAT to fill. But when the space is wide open and the reverb is WIDE, a good BAT will fill that space better than any medium sized instrument.

Great taste and more filling, the BAT is like the Guiness Extra Stout of tubas. Probably not the best horn to have on a dessert island, but it doesn't get creamier and more flavorful in complexity of sound.


A big horn for a big space.

[Rick Denney]

Don't just "buy a Yorkbrunner" to bet the name; buy a GREAT horn, REGARDLESS of what the name is, the "size" is, or the "fad" is. The proof is when you pick "that horn" up and play, you are HAPPY with the way you sound (and dare I say... FEEL) on that horn. If you KNOW you want a 6/4ish thing, try as many different ones as you can, but consider trying other _/4s as well.

If I may presume to reinforce Chris's comments, I would add that I have play-tested probably a dozen Yorkbrunners. They have ranged from magical to..."Next!"

Dave Fedderly is (or was--I don't know if it's still available) selling his Yorkbrunner, which he has played and tweaked for many years. It's magical. But he thought the Meinl-Weston handmade Baer-model BAT was better enough to be worthy to replace it. I have played an original handmade Yorkbrunner, like the one Mike Sanders plays, and it was magical. Mike sounds fabulous on his--sweet, ever-present, massive, but totally under control. But I have also played Yorkbrunners that I felt like sucked the air out of me, and I've played a few that made me wonder if something was stuck in the bell.

Of those dozen or so, there are perhaps two or three that rank higher in my mind than my battered old Bb Holton.

That should tell you that even from the perspective of a second-rate amateur, Yorkbrunners are pretty variable. A great one is great, but there are other great tubas in this size class, too. And many are a lot cheaper.

And all that is separate from the question of the sense of starting with a 6/4 tuba. Even in my limited community-band world, I bought the big tuba only to supplement a collection of smaller instruments. I use the Holton more than the others, but the Holton is completely hopeless in some of those circumstances--it's just too big. And I play in a large ensemble most of the time. If I had to have only one tuba, the Holton could not be it. Thanks goodness that choice hasn't been imposed on me.

Rick "for whom the differences between great and not-so-great big tubas glow in the dark" Denney

[Lee Stofer]

Selecting an instrument is such an intensely personal matter. And, at your stage of life as a musician, there is a lot of uncertainty as to what you specifically will be doing 5 or 10 years down the road. Heck, life can take a big turn in a semester, or even in a day.

I cannot say that it is impossible for you to buy the Hirsbrunner HB-50, then land a major symphony gig at your first or second audition, but the chances would likely be just about as good if you took the loan money and played the lottery.

In today's situation, I think that most teachers would tell you that playing musically, but also technically very clean and precise is what will more likely get you success in an orchestral audition, which is you being judged whilst playing an excerpts recital. A 4/4 Rudolf Meinl CC or a Mirafone 188 would be the largest instrument I'd want to use in an audition. In fact, I've won more auditions using a Rudolf Meinl 3/4 CC than any other instrument.

I must disagree with Mr. Chen. I have recently been working on Chester Schmitz' HB-50, and it is not in any way an enlarged version of the smaller Hirsbrunner piston CC tubas, but an excellent representation of the 6/4 Yorks. The HB-50 came first, then, when pressed by Americans wanting a smaller, more affordable piston CC tuba, the 4/4 rotor horn was then offered in a piston version.

As for your choice for a first personal tuba, preferably a "general business tuba", comfortable in a variety of settings, I'd make the following recommendations;

1) If the school-owned instrument is serving your needs now, wait and do more fact-finding.

2) If you really need to buy a tuba, I'd suggest getting a CC first and an F later. If the CC is a large 3/4 or 4/4 model, you would only have limited need for the F anyway.

3) Play everything you can get your hands on before you buy. People can tell you what is good/not good, but you won't know the personalities of the instruments from various makers until you "meet" those instruments. You might be an Alexander/Besson/Conn/Cerveny/Meinl-Weston/Gronitz/Hirsbrunner/Rudolf Meinl/Nirschl/B & S/Willson man, but you wouldn't know if you didn't try one. If you find the instrument that you have a special affinity with, that will mean much more than the size, or anything else, for you will have an instrument that will "work with you", and for you.

4) One final note - over the next several years, you will be likely to incur fewer dents and transport damage and expense if you have a 4/4 size tuba. I could tell you plenty about the headaches of shipping 6/4 tubas!

[tubacdk]

you cannot go wrong with (simply) a Miraphone 188. It is a lil bigger than the typical 186's schools have (I know, you're a big guy after all) There are few college students around who would honstly be hampered by a 188, it'll work beautifully in 98.5% of all possible ensemble demands an undergrad has, and it'll be a good straightforward switch from the horn you're (only recently started) using now.

I fully agree, and I will add that it will work beautifully in 98.5% of the playing situations you'll find yourself in once you're out of school. After I finished my undergrad I did a lot of tuba shopping/switching and have found myself most satisfied with a large 4/4 CC tuba, rather similar in its characteristics to the 188 I had when I started college. I do a fair amount of orchestra playing and I don't find myself longing for a bigger horn. One of the guys here in LA who does a very large chunk of the top orchestra playing/recording plays on a 4/4 CC (Doug Tornquist, HB-2P - he is absolutely amazing).

All that to say, go for a good 4/4 CC. As your only CC tuba, it will limit you far less than owning a 6/4 or 5/4. and as far as 4/4 CCs go, it's tough to beat a Miraphone 188 for value, consistency and quality.

-ck

[Tom]

If all you want is a Hirsbrunner ("all out?"), do yourself a favor and get an HB-2P.

If you really find yourself wanting to get an HB-50, don't buy new until you check out the used ones at hornguys.com, Dillon Music, and Baltimore Brass. In addition if you're considering a tuba like this, you should check out the Nirschl Seth Horner has for sale.

If I were in your position I would shop around in the used offerings and consider everything.

If buying new is the only way to go, a Miraphone 188 is difficult to beat. They are trouble free, versatile tubas with intonation considered to be among the finest around. They are tubas for players that want a clean, clean sound, with a great scale so they can concentrate on performing and not fighting the tuba. I've played many 188s. All have been great, and some have been stellar...never a dud.

[Aco]

Why not consider buying a high quality F tuba first and wait on a big contrabass until you really need it? While I don't really feel that I shot myself in the foot for buying a PT6 as my first horn (not at all really) I am now having a difficult time coming up with the funds for an/my dream F tuba- meanwhile, my school offers old miraphone Bb and C tubas that could EASILY get the job done for college ensembles for free.

[Lee Jacobs]

Roger Bobo wrote this article on choosing a new horn last year. It had a lot of good info as well as a form to fill out about the horns that you're testing out. I would highly recommend his advice (as would he, I'm sure).

http://www.rogerbobo.com/musical_articl ... ping.shtml

[MikeMason]

Bloke, I can see why you flopped as a kolledge toober perfeser.Your advice is not fun,nor does it build a kid's self esteem.

[MikeMason]

If i have to put a every time i'm funnin ya, where's the fun in that?

[jonesbrass]

I have to totally agree with Bloke on his recommendation to wait for the F. I recieved the same advice from my mentor (and the trumpet teacher, too) in college - stay with BBb until you've REALLY got it down, then when you switch to any other tuba, they will be much easier to play and "master." They were absolutely right. By the time I bought an F, it was pretty quick to get it down, and when I switched to CC, it helped, too. Even on those rare occasions that I've had to play EEb, it was no problem. Don't be in a rush - enjoy the ride. Just my $0.02, probably worth less.