forget "versus"

tubafatness · Post by **tubafatness** » Sun May 20, 2007 9:41 pm

I know that these models aren't mainstream, but I've always wondered why Rudolf Meinl tubas have such a relatively low used sale point, (especially for the CC models.) They are very well put-together and high quality horns, yet it's not unthinkable to see a great used Rudy CC for $5,000 or less. Oh well, guess it's seller's loss and buyer's gain....

Chuck Jackson · Post by **Chuck Jackson** » Sun May 20, 2007 9:46 pm

C'mon, Joe, nobody does the verses anymore, just the chorus'. Oh, my bad, you meant "versus". BTW, nice picture Wade. I have a couple you may want. You look captivating in a certain shade of green.

Chuck

Chuck Jackson · Post by **Chuck Jackson** » Sun May 20, 2007 9:56 pm

Not only do I have it, it is in a place of Honor right in front of my desk as we speak. I remember those nights fondly, if not the hang overs the next day. I'm skinnier now, but have boodles of gray hair. Life was simpler, and much different in 1986. Cheers.

Chuck

MikeS · Post by **MikeS** » Mon May 21, 2007 9:50 am

Here's my vote for quickest obsolescence. Since someone already mentioned the MW 2155, do you think MW sold any of the old rotary valve 2155's after the piston valve version came out? For those of you who don't remember the old rotary 2155's they had a wonderful Alex-like sound and possibly the worst intonation of any tuba ever produced by a manufacturer you've heard of.

cjk · Post by **cjk** » Mon May 21, 2007 10:22 am

MikeS wrote:Here's my vote for quickest obsolescence. Since someone already mentioned the MW 2155, do you think MW sold any of the old rotary valve 2155's after the piston valve version came out? For those of you who don't remember the old rotary 2155's they had a wonderful Alex-like sound and possibly the worst intonation of any tuba ever produced by a manufacturer you've heard of.

Have you ever actually played one of these with a tuner?

Other than a flat bottom line g, the intonation is actually quite good. A flat third partial seems to be one of the things that few people will put up with, but lots of folks seem to be willing to put up with a sharp 3rd partial on F tubas.

MikeS · Post by **MikeS** » Mon May 21, 2007 10:59 am

cjk wrote:
MikeS wrote:Here's my vote for quickest obsolescence. Since someone already mentioned the MW 2155, do you think MW sold any of the old rotary valve 2155's after the piston valve version came out? For those of you who don't remember the old rotary 2155's they had a wonderful Alex-like sound and possibly the worst intonation of any tuba ever produced by a manufacturer you've heard of.

Have you ever actually played one of these with a tuner?

Other than a flat bottom line g, the intonation is actually quite good. A flat third partial seems to be one of the things that few people will put up with, but lots of folks seem to be willing to put up with a sharp 3rd partial on F tubas.

I've played three of them at various times, all with tuners, friends, and a selection of mouthpieces. Two would not produce an in-the-staff D within 25 cents using any valve combination we could come up with. I play an Alex 163 and am used to using 1-3 for the G at the bottom of the staff. The third example had a usable 1-3 D but the 1-3 G was still 30 cents low with the third valve slide all the way in. The open G showed up as a very sharp F# on the tuner.

I am very glad to hear there were workable examples of this horn out there. I really wanted to like the old 2155's based on their lovely tone and far above average response. Perhaps I just found the worst three they ever made.

By the way, I think the Yamaha 861 plays a lot like those old 2155's but with very good intonation. I've never understood why the 861 isn't more popular.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Mon May 21, 2007 11:33 am

harold wrote:B. Will have to wait and see, but my prediction is that the PT-6 will be rendered obsolete by the Yamayork. In fact, I'm banking on it.

For this to happen, I would think the prices of these two would have to be much closer. Do you know something we don't?

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Mon May 21, 2007 12:15 pm

MikeS wrote:I really wanted to like the old 2155's based on their lovely tone and far above average response.

As they were prototypes, they were all very different. Have you ever tried the one with two factory triggers (looks like two left hand valves) and a removable leadpipe? 3rd partial G is 40 cents low; BUT every other partial low to high (including the 5th) is very workable.
If you are ever in the Nashville area, feel free to try it. It may even be for sale if you think it is the horn for you.

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Mon May 21, 2007 12:22 pm

I think Dalyan has made Cerveny obsolete, at least for Bb tubas.

I'm not sure the Yamaha 621 falls in price that much, because I'm not sure who buys them new. I bought mine as a demonstrator right out of Yamaha's show booth at TMEA in 1990 or 1991, and paid $3000. I suspect it's still worth at least that. Since then, however, Yamaha's retail prices have soared.

In this day where everyone seems to want the same thing that the latest audition winner has, prices are fickle. I don't think I'd ever buy a new high-end tuba, unless I knew I'd never want to sell it.

Rick "who does not buy according to popularity" Denney

cjk · Post by **cjk** » Mon May 21, 2007 7:39 pm

MikeS wrote:
cjk wrote:
MikeS wrote:Here's my vote for quickest obsolescence. Since someone already mentioned the MW 2155, do you think MW sold any of the old rotary valve 2155's after the piston valve version came out? For those of you who don't remember the old rotary 2155's they had a wonderful Alex-like sound and possibly the worst intonation of any tuba ever produced by a manufacturer you've heard of.

Have you ever actually played one of these with a tuner?

Other than a flat bottom line g, the intonation is actually quite good. A flat third partial seems to be one of the things that few people will put up with, but lots of folks seem to be willing to put up with a sharp 3rd partial on F tubas.
I've played three of them at various times, all with tuners, friends, and a selection of mouthpieces. Two would not produce an in-the-staff D within 25 cents using any valve combination we could come up with. I play an Alex 163 and am used to using 1-3 for the G at the bottom of the staff. The third example had a usable 1-3 D but the 1-3 G was still 30 cents low with the third valve slide all the way in. The open G showed up as a very sharp F# on the tuner.

I am very glad to hear there were workable examples of this horn out there. I really wanted to like the old 2155's based on their lovely tone and far above average response. Perhaps I just found the worst three they ever made. By the way, I think the Yamaha 861 plays a lot like those old 2155's but with very good intonation. I've never understood why the 861 isn't more popular.

hmmm, that's interesting. I've also played three, including Marty's before he bought it. All three played just like Marty's. open E was AOK, as were second valve Eb and and first valve d. The only real problem I found was the nasty flat bottom line g. Maybe I played the three best and you played the three worst.