fully chromatic York "Monster" Eb (horn dorn alert

[ASTuba]

Is this for your own entertainment or for a customer? Looks like a lot of fun, nice work man!

[markaustinhowle]

Looks great Joe! I know that Noah will be happy to see this and I look forward to playing it a little too.

By the way, my son Noah used that horn to make 1st chair all-state here in Mississippi this year as a 9th grader.
Thanks!!

[markaustinhowle]

This obviously was a top action horn. Where is the valve block from?

How is it obvious to you Harold?

From what I can tell after actually owning it for 4 years, this was originally a front action 4 valve tuba.

[Bandmaster]

I think he is referring to the scar on the bell showing that it used to be on a upright valve horn where the leadpipe wraps around from the other direction. Either the bell was taken from another horn or this horn was converted to front action valves.

[Chuck(G)]

Either way, that's an old York (ca. 1900). Note the wide ferrules and the top bow guard.

So, Joe--how does it play?

[markaustinhowle]

The problem for me is the second bow. York didn't do that on any front action horn I have ever seen. Have I seen them all? Nope, but I think it is very unlikely that this horn started off life as a front action horn.

Does the fact that this horn may have been a top action horn make a difference in how it plays? Not a bit.

I was not aware of the 2nd Bow being different. If what you say is correct, then this could have been an earlier conversion project. There was nothing noticeable to me about the valve block being anything but original York valves, and it didn't show any signs of being changed out. (put it is possible.)

I had Joe put that bell on in place of the original because it was in much better shape. It did indeed come from a top action York.

The valve buttons are obviously not York. They are much more comfortable though.

If anyone else can shed some light regarding the 2nd bow, I would appreciate it.

Hello Wade. How are things down south?

Thanks,
Mark

[Chuck(G)]

The bell, obviously doesn't match the rest of the instrument. Bells from Yorks this old were heavier. Mark, did the original perhaps say "John York and Son"?

If this were a converted top-action horn, I'd expect to see solder stains on the bows from the removed carriage rings. Maybe Joe's managed to cover them over with something, but I don't see 'em.

[oldbandnerd]

Hey Bloke ,
When you do a job like this where you add extra valve(s) how do you know how much tubing goes with the valve(s) to keep the intonation and pitch correct? Is this just a matter of experience and skill or is there a reference with all the math already worked out that you use ?
I have seen many posts here about doing this kid of work to horns and they never seem to address this little detail .

Just curios .

T.Y.

[Sam Gnagey]

Great work, but can you find any center on placement of the low Bb? Most of the monster Ebs I've seen have a problem there, no matter what you do to them.

[markaustinhowle]

The bell, obviously doesn't match the rest of the instrument. Bells from Yorks this old were heavier. Mark, did the original perhaps say "John York and Son"?

The bells are the same. The one I asked Joe to put onto this instrument was from a 52XXX era York. The original which was older also had "J W York and Sons" engraved onto its side.

Sometimes the more info you have, the less obvious things are.



Mark "who is glad people are interested in this instrument" Howle

[Chuck(G)]

The bells are the same. The one I asked Joe to put onto this instrument was from a 52XXX era York. The original which was older also had "J W York and Sons" engraved onto its side.

Thanks. I've got an old monster here in the 23xxx series with a "JW York and Son" bell, so it's close. And it's definitely heavier (with a thicker bell wire) than the post-WWI ones. The old Yorks tend to be a bit (but just a bit) wider than the newer ones, if memory serves.

[Uncle Buck]

How much extra time could it take to route the 5th valve tubing behind/inside the horn (versus out front for every inadvertent bash to zero in on) I mean really, an hour or two, tops?

Why don't you post us some pictures where you've done some similar jobs so we can compare???

[markaustinhowle]

...look at the top of the second bow. That bend is very characteristic of top action horns...

Harold, I have seen only a few of these Monster York E flats and this is the only front action York I have studied up close. Do you happen to have a pic of a York with a different looking second bow top? I would like to have one, so I can keep your observation in mind before buying again.

By the way, a few months earlier, I had an upcoming young repairman from the Tallahassee area named Paul Avery turn the slide tubing around on the first valve so it points up instead of down. It adds another feature of being able to pull the 1st slide while playing.

I also am adding a pull rod to the main tuning slide. I will have a lot of control over the pitch of the entire instrument in one hand. This will enable me to play every note of the chromatic scale in the "Sweet spot" without having to sacrifice tone quality by bending the pitch with the embouchure.


Thanks

Mark

[pulseczar]

By the way, a few months earlier, I had an upcoming young repairman from the Tallahassee area named Paul Avery turn the slide tubing around on the first valve so it points up instead of down. It adds another feature of being able to pull the 1st slide while playing.

I'm intrigued. How did he do it?

[pulseczar]

I'm intrigued. How did he do it?

I'm assuming he took out tubes 1 and 5, mated 2 to the piston, and then bought another outer-slide tube to match tube 3?