Almost Top U.S. Orchestras

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:09 pm

How about a list of some full-time orchestras? It's been a while since I have seen an accurate list. When I lived in Fort Worth, I know the Fort Worth Symphony was then a part-time organization--but that has changed. Are there any orchestras that used to be full-time that are now part-time?

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:25 am

LoyalTubist wrote: Are there any orchestras that used to be full-time that are now part-time?

This is (to me) a very interesting question.

I cannot think of any off hand, but intend to research this a bit.

It seems that in recent years orchestras have gone from fine to struggling to flat broke in short order. All of the "major" orchestras appear to still be hanging on, but many of them have been operating for years with huge budget deficits.

Many orchestras out there have cut their seasons down and have asked for their members to take pay or benefit cuts before they resort to going bankrupt.

Some of the smaller/regional/per-service orchestras have not been able to continue operations normally and have merged with other smaller orchestras in the area (this opens a whole new can of worms) or shut down completely, but there are none that I know of that have simply transitioned from full time to part time.

jacojdm · Post by **jacojdm** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:19 am

TonyTuba wrote:Most don't know, but the North Carolina Symphony can play!!!

Maestro Zimmerman also does a FANTASTIC job with the Canton Symphony. After Cleveland and Cincinnati, I think many would say it's the best in Ohio. And it's not a full time group.

LARSONTUBA · Post by **LARSONTUBA** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:48 am

Given the top five, and not necessarily in this order:

San Francisco
L.A.
Milwaukee
Minnesota
Houston

Tubanese · Post by **Tubanese** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:12 am

Utah
Pittsburgh
Cincinnati
L.A.
San Francisco
Minnesota
etc...

Bowerybum · Post by **Bowerybum** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:30 pm

snorlax wrote:Given the sheer numbers of music majors churned out by conservatories, is there actually a BAD professional orchestra in any major or semi-major city??
I can't imagine there is a really BAD orchestra anywhere when 40-50 people audition for a seat in a half-season, per-service professional orchestra.

There was a nice column by Alex Ross in the June 25 New Yorker entitled "On The Road", 3 orchestras, 3 cities, 2 days, re: Indianapolis, Nashville, and Alabama Symphonies. Sort of along the same lines as this thread. It can be accessed on Newyorker.com.

I'm surprised no one mentioned The Detroit Symphony. At one time the DSO was considered "Top Ten".

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:17 pm

Bowerybum wrote:I'm surprised no one mentioned The Detroit Symphony. At one time the DSO was considered "Top Ten".

I haven't seen anything lately, but I remember that Detroit was tottering on the financial brink a while back. Anyone know their current status?

Albertibass · Post by **Albertibass** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:10 pm

Pittsburgh
Baltimore
Los Angeles
National
Cleveland

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:44 pm

EuphManRob wrote:
bloke wrote:1/ How is the New Orleans situation at this time?

2/ Are St. Louis' financial problems solved?

3/ After all these years, has San Antonio finally stabilized into something that everyone is convinced will be open for business again the next year...and the next...and the next...??

bloke "not rhetoric...genuine questions"
What about San Diego? I had heard that they actually folded a few years back.

Or am I completely wrong?

http://sandiegosymphony.org/

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:55 pm

EuphManRob wrote: What about San Diego? I had heard that they actually folded a few years back.

Or am I completely wrong?

Maybe you mean San Jose?

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:47 pm

It was the San Jose Symphony. But, did you know it's over 460 miles between San Diego and San Jose. We Californians are sometimes amused at how small non-Californians think our state is!

Alex C · Post by **Alex C** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:51 am

snorlax wrote:Given the sheer numbers of music majors churned out by conservatories, is there actually a BAD professional orchestra in any major or semi-major city??
I can't imagine there is a really BAD orchestra anywhere when 40-50 people audition for a seat in a half-season, per-service professional orchestra.

It isn't always the quality of the musician, a bad conductor can lower the performance standards and the morale of any orchestra dramatically. I've heard major orchestras sound sloppy with a sub-par conductor.

joebob · Post by **joebob** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:47 pm

San Diego did go bankrupt around 1996 and restarted a couple years later. They got a major gift (I think around $100 million) about 5 years ago and are somewhat stable now.

St. Louis had a very ugly work stoppage a couple years ago. They have since raised a lot of money and are on better financial ground.

ParLawGod · Post by **ParLawGod** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:54 pm

I'm not into ranking orchestras, but the orchestras I like the most are (in no particular):

Los Angeles
Chicago
New York
Milwaukee (I live in Wisconsin)

The reason I like the above orchestras so much is because when I listen to a recording made by one of the above groups, I almost always like it.

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:55 pm

joebob wrote:San Diego did go bankrupt around 1996 and restarted a couple years later. They got a major gift (I think around $100 million) about 5 years ago and are somewhat stable now.

I was out of the country then and didn't have access to the Internet. Now I know almost everything that's going on in America, except what movies people want to see and what the best commercials are on TV.

Alex C · Post by **Alex C** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:57 pm

snorlax wrote:
EuphManRob wrote:
Alex C wrote:a bad conductor can lower the performance standards and the morale of any orchestra dramatically
And there's plenty of those around... :roll: :roll: :roll:
Yeah, but if we are "professionals," or people with pride in our work, shouldn't we be able to transcend stuff like that?
Morale? I can see where that might be influenced. Performance? Well, I'm not sure if external forces should drive that.
Easy for me to say, though, since my day job allows me to do ONLY the gigs I want.

I will paraphrase Dale Clevenger, "The Chicago Symphony Orchestra has a level that they will not play below no matter what the conductor does."

But it doesn't matter who you are, if a conductor says something or does something which shows that he doesn't know what he's doing, the orchestra will know it and take advantage of it.

One major orchestra is notorious for having wind players test a new conductor by playing a part, or a note, down an octave. If the conductor doesn't catch it, the orchestra makes the entire engagement miserable for the conductor and the morale of the orchestra suffers. It must feel like a wasted effort at that point to them. External forces most certainly drive morale for everyone in most situations.

Being professional is no guarantee of perfection. Great lawyers loose cases they shouldn't because they get careless or overconfident. Great doctors loose patients that they shouldn't; less than great doctors actually kill their patients by "accident." A professional musician may be careless or sloppy or simply have a bad day, at least nobody dies.

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:23 pm

I played for one conductor who made me want to cry all the time--he was that insensitive. No one ever saw me cry, but he gave other people that same feeling--we'd talk about it when we knew we were far away from the conductor. We don't change our feelings just because we grow up and make our living with our playing. Growing up just means we don't pay retribution to the people who hurt us...

usually

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Almost Top U.S. Orchestras

My 6-10 orchestras