Military musicians, do you play your own tuba or gov. horn?

opie · Post by **opie** » Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:11 pm

In the Quantico Marine Corps Band we just received Miraphone 1291's. It was a lot of hassle to convince the powers that be to get them but the players prevailed. Also on inventory are 2 CB50's from the DC Air Force band and Conn 20k's for the sousaphones. According to the Marine Corps band manual wind instruments are to be replaced every 7 years. This is all dependant on the band's budget which generally can't keep up with this 7 year plan.

Badgley · Post by **Badgley** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:21 am

For all of you asking where the horns go after they are retired here is your answer:

When a horn is retired from a band it is placed in the DRMO (Defense Reutilization and Marketing Office) program, where all military equipment goes to die, from here it is held for a period of I believe 90 days. During this 90 period other units and claim the horn, hence the lateral movements mentioned. I heard a story that a Marine band picked up three HB-50's this way, i cannot confirm that though.
After 90 days all the equipment in DRMO is packaged together on pallets, a pallet can contain anything from to tubas to transmissions from a Humvee. The pallets are auctioned off to non-profit orgizinations, surplus dealers etc.
Rarely does the public ever get a chance to bid on these pallets. If by some chance you do get to bid, you must bid on the entire pallet. So yes, you may get a tuba but you will also be responsible for the other 1000 lbs of crap that come with it.
Unfortunately many instruments that may still have many years left in them are subject to this process and become $4 worth of scrap for some scrap dealer. Sorry I had to be the bearer of bad news.

And as for the original post, Yes, I use both my privately owned horns, along with the Govts. 20k Sousaphone. However our band does own some fine BBb, and CC tubas.

Brian Badgley
I Corps Army Band
Ft. Lewis, WA

Ace · Post by **Ace** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:00 pm

Badgley,

It was good to see your posting from the band at Fort Lewis WA. That is a beautiful location there on the shores of Puget Sound.

I served there in 1960-61 in the Sixth Army area 21st Army Band. Also on post was the large Fourth Infantry Division Band, and we often joined forces for parades, concerts, ceremonies, etc. Altogether, there were six large Sousaphones between us----I think they may have been Conn 20K's, but I was a trumpet player then and knew nothing about low brass.

I revisited Fort Lewis two months ago. It was very difficult to be allowed on post---the security was bristling. After a half-hour of intense questioning (What, at age 71, I looked like a vicious terrorist? LOL), the guards finally gave me a pass to drive around and take photos of areas where I had served. Amazingly, after all those years, I remembered my way around that huge fort----but only to discover the old band barracks had been razed. Sigh.

Best wishes to you, your band, and all who serve in our military.

nimrod480 · Post by **nimrod480** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:05 am

Well, Im serving at the IDF Orchetra (Israel Defence Force) and in Israel you dont have the option to choose if you want to serve for thr army or you want to continue with your life to do something else or go and study Music or anything else.

It goes like this first your paid about 75$ a month this is the minimum pay for people who practiclly do nothing and for warriors and people at the special forces at the army it goes up to 175$.
We come everyday and do a reahersal for 2-3 hours and then go and preform or just go home, we get lunch and we get free busses and trains, everybody gets 2 horns (every instrument) except tubsits that get a Tuba (Old not playing condition King) and a golden susaphone and a white susaphone.

Mostly i play with the army tuba but when i play solos with the orchestra or when i reaherse with my quintet in the army i bring my own horn and play with it, overall it is good terms as you hot to serve at the army.

Evil Ronnie · Post by **Evil Ronnie** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:33 pm

Bob1062 wrote:Thanks guys!
How about at the School of Music?

Bob,

Even though I've been out for almost thirty years,this is easy to answer.

At the Pool of Mucus, everything is done by the book, so you would play a Army or Navy issued tuba and sousaphone for all of your classes.

BopEuph · Post by **BopEuph** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:04 am

I don't think this has been brought up:

What about the premier bands in D.C.? I was always under the impression that those musicians were assumed to have exactly what they liked to play by the time they were at the ability to win one of those auditions, so do they play issued horns at military performances?

Nick

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:01 am

The School of Music issued me a Conn 4J CC tuba in 1979. I think the other upright tubas were all Kings.

Badgley · Post by **Badgley** » Fri Sep 07, 2007 6:36 pm

To answer some more questions that have come up:

The Navy School of Music currently issues out Mirafone 186 and Meinl-Weston 25 BBb's and Meinl-Weston 2145 and 2155 CC's. Sousaphones are laquered Conn 20K's. All the horns are in excellent working conditon, and I'd say 90% were purchased in the last few years. The entire inventory of the SOM is owned by the Navy.

While stationed at the SOM students are able to use privately owned instruments. They just have to arrange to have their horns shipped to them at the school.

Finally, no, none of the NCO's yell at you for carrying your horn incorrectly in the halls of the school

Brian Badgley
I Corps Army Band
Ft. Lewis, WA

ai698 · Post by **ai698** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 9:18 pm

I don't want to go active duty. First, I'm too old to deal with active duty again, and second, I don't want to have to go through the Warrior Transition Course. I use to be an instructor there and don't want to be on the other side as a student.

I know we're suppose to get "professional quality instrument of our choosing" but tell that to our higher ups. I've been looking for a nice CC for lateral transfer since I've gotten in the band. I might be transferring to
another state, though.

greatk82 wrote:
ai698 wrote:I've been in my National Guard band for over 4 1/2 years and still waiting for my unit to get me a "Professional Quality Instrument". All we have is older 186 BBb's that are barely in playing condition. I play a CC and rarely play BBb's. Still waiting...

BTW. I'll go to the sandbox!
Come to 4 ID. CQ number is 254-618-8839.
As far as your horns, pull serial numbers and find manufacture dates. Take proof of said date and find the replacement cycle. I beleive tubas are required by regulation to be replaced every 8 years or so. Contact the DC bands or other active duty bands and see what is available for Lateral Transfer.

greatk82 · Post by **greatk82** » Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:19 pm

ai698 wrote:I don't want to go active duty. First, I'm too old to deal with active duty again, and second, I don't want to have to go through the Warrior Transition Course. I use to be an instructor there and don't want to be on the other side as a student.

I know we're suppose to get "professional quality instrument of our choosing" but tell that to our higher ups. I've been looking for a nice CC for lateral transfer since I've gotten in the band. I might be transferring to
another state, though.

greatk82 wrote:
ai698 wrote:I've been in my National Guard band for over 4 1/2 years and still waiting for my unit to get me a "Professional Quality Instrument". All we have is older 186 BBb's that are barely in playing condition. I play a CC and rarely play BBb's. Still waiting...

BTW. I'll go to the sandbox!
Come to 4 ID. CQ number is 254-618-8839.
As far as your horns, pull serial numbers and find manufacture dates. Take proof of said date and find the replacement cycle. I beleive tubas are required by regulation to be replaced every 8 years or so. Contact the DC bands or other active duty bands and see what is available for Lateral Transfer.

What band are you with? You seem far away for 36th ID. My spot has been filled anyway. I broke my back 49 months ago and two deployments since was more than enough. My command replaced me about 2 months ago.

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 1:02 am

ai698 wrote:"professional quality instrument of our choosing"

Really? All the military bands I know of TELL you what instrument you are going to play. When I was at the school, I really wanted to do everything on a BBb tuba. But, being that I am an honest man, when they asked me if I play CC tuba, and I said yes, they issued it to me.

No choice.

chhite · Post by **chhite** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 2:21 am

This started out as a quick explination but quickly turned long and lecture-like. Anyway, here goes.

A band's property is drawn from several different lists and the two that concern instruments are the MTOE (required items) and the CTA (optional items). The BBb tubas are listed on the MTOE and the Cs, Ebs, and Fs are on the CTA list, with the BBb numbers being higher. If a band has more CC players than BBb, they may be able to sustitute a CC for a BBb on their property book, giving them the proper number of "required" instruments. This allows for a band to be better equipped to provide a variety of instruments to fit most of their players.

Section leaders should seek out their supply personnel and get a list of the dates that the tubas were added to their property books. This will give an idea of the life cycle of the instruments and if/when they can be replaced. If the instrument is approaching the end of their life cycle and it is still in good condition, or good enough to overhaul, why not keep it on the books if it continues to serve the unit and its players? If it's not doing the job or has been broken more times than serviceable, try and get rid of it and purchase equipment that will last under institutional-style conditions. And buy a durable flight case in addition to the light-duty case that often times comes with the horn.

What I'm advocating isn't new. Purchase good equipment, protect and maintain it. Get a good life-cycle replacement plan in place for all instruments. Seek out good repair techs that can assist the unit in a long-term capacity so that instruments last longer and they know the history of each horn and can advise if the property should be replaced. Remember, we are all paying taxes to support the purchase of quality instruments, so military section leaders and purchasers, try to do it right the first time and protect a potentially dwindling resource.

It's great to stock a band with top-level instruments and heartbreaking to see others that can't get rid of aged and broken equipment and can't properly perform their missions. Get a plan and work on putting it in place. It won't happen overnight but it may start the ball rolling.

tubadoctor · Post by **tubadoctor** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:31 am

[quote="Badgley"]

Finally, no, none of the NCO's yell at you for carrying your horn incorrectly in the halls of the school

Actually, I'm pretty sure that crusty old sunnuvabitch tuba instructor mentioned you horn carrying technique a few times, didn't he? hehe... I hope life is treatin you well out there... Headed to West Point in 2 weeks!

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:00 pm

Musicians who go to West Point aren't officers. They are rank-and-file special bandsmen, the same as the instructors at the school. It's a lateral shift, not a promotion if they send them there.

greatk82 · Post by **greatk82** » Sun Sep 09, 2007 2:12 pm

tubadoctor wrote:
Badgley wrote:
Finally, no, none of the NCO's yell at you for carrying your horn incorrectly in the halls of the school

Actually, I'm pretty sure that crusty old sunnuvabitch tuba instructor mentioned you horn carrying technique a few times, didn't he? hehe... I hope life is treatin you well out there... Headed to West Point in 2 weeks!

Just crusty and old, I have so much more to add...4 days and a wake up 'til I am gone.
I think you wouldn't look nearly as old or crusty on this.

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:33 am

I checked with the School of Music website and so much has changed since I went through there 28 years ago.

1. They now have drill sergeants.
2. The Coke machines in the Scott Hall lobbies (barracks day rooms) no longer sell beer.
3. Bivouac is now part of the course.
4. There are now classes in military training on a regular basis.
5. Students must qualify on M-16 rifles during the course.
6. Students are not allowed to wear civilian clothes until certain criteria are met.
7. Students are not allowed to drive their own cars (POVs) until certain criteria are met.
8. Physical training tests must be passed before graduation.
9. There is now one MOS (Military Occupational Specialty number) for all Regular Army Bandsmen: 42R. Tuba players used to be 02F [oh-two-foxtrot] and, if I remember correctly, euphonium players were 02E [oh-two-echo]. Special Bandsmen are now 42S. They used to be 02S [oh-two-sierra]. (Special Bandsmen have only had one unifying MOS.)

http://schoolofmusic.army.mil/

Badgley · Post by **Badgley** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:50 pm

tubadoctor wrote:
Actually, I'm pretty sure that crusty old sunnuvabitch tuba instructor mentioned you horn carrying technique a few times, didn't he?

Dude, you really shouldn't talk bad about Cip like that...he's fragile man!!

Seriously, I'm loving it here, couldn't ask for a better assignment. You need to make sure you get to DC this January so we can toss a few back.