Playing with alot of pressure on F

[Rick Denney]

Now, when I play with the CC mouthpiece on F, it does not feel as sharp.

Now tell me if I am wrong: arent the rims (inner and outer) on the Baer MMVI CC and the bare MMVI F supposed to be the same?

I knew a guy who showed up at a gig having forgotten his mouthpiece. He cut the top off a soda bottle, taped it to a section of hose or something he found in his trunk, taped that to the receiver, and played the gig. Note that his lips were pressing against the recently cut edge of plastic that's about half a millimeter thick. With any pressure at all, 1.) he'd be bleeding, and 2.) the tape would never have held.

He said the sound was a little out there but that nobody out front was likely to have noticed.

In the context of that story, how irrelevant does asking about comparatively subtle variations on mouthpiece rims sound to you? Those rim differences affect comfort and some subtle aspects of playing such as flexibility. But I think people who use too much pressure should use a sharp rim so that the pain will tell them not to. (I include myself in that category, by the way.)

You are not allowed to compare rims until neither of them hurt or leave marks. Then, you can compare rims.

Rick "it ain't the mouthpiece" Denney

[pierso20]

I didn't want to write a whole new post just for this question...BUT......(sorry James to take a bit away from this...wonderful....conversation......everyone is having)

All things involving pain set aside....

Does a ring around your lips after playing equal too much pressure? Assuming that my "face" doesn't hurt after playing, but I still have that ring.

I mean, I'm in the boat that says "if it doesn't hurt, then it's probably ok". But I'd figure I'd throw out this question too.

[THE TUBA]

I deal with pressure on F the same way I deal with pressure in any situation: take deep breaths and imagine the audience is in their underwear. (Just hope your professor isn't sitting in the front row)



Oh, wait-the other type of pressure.

[Rick Denney]

I mean, I'm in the boat that says "if it doesn't hurt, then it's probably ok". But I'd figure I'd throw out this question too.

Especially when playing F tuba in the upper register, I have always had a problem of using too much pressure. It's a crutch to overcome the weakness of my chops.

So, if you are using pressure to overcome embouchure, then it's too much pressure, whether it hurts or not, or whether it leaves a ring or not. The mouthpiece rim seals air and provides muscle isolation. Once the air sealed, more pressure is unnecessary. You should be able to buzz all the pitches on the mouthpiece holding it to your face lightly with two fingers. I can't do that reliably, but then I'm a lazy amateur who doesn't practice enough.

Rick "back to fundamentals" Denney

[jb2ba]

Hey everyone

Heres another suggestion that nobody has seemed to mention. Try buzzing in your high range using your F mpc, do some excercises like in the back of the Hal Leonard book (compiled by AJ). You can mess around with them... take them up and down octaves.. nothing wrong with that. Also do long tones and then try to control pitches up there. BUT do so holding it just with your thumb and pointer... or a light grip. Not a grubby fist cramming the thing into your face. WIth range issues I find that students will inevitably have success on their horn when doing this.

PEACE!

JB




PS. Also make sure that you're using a fast airstream.... but I think folks know that... just in case some middle schooler is reading this I suppose.

[hugechunkofmetal]

I think the important factor is you stated that you just started playing F tuba. I had a similar issue when i switched from Eb-->F tuba. Just keep practicing away, i think the issue should resolve itself, it's just a matter of your body getting used to the different way of playing. Should only take a short while before you become comfortable.

Some of the previous suggestions i.e. buzzing will certainly help!

All the best.

[Chen]

Mostly good posts in this thread. The guy needs a practical solution. Sooner or later he's going to change the way he plays to adjust to the mouthpiece. Bad. The mouthpiece should suit the player. And with all due respect, just because the mouthpiece says Baer on it doesn't mean it's best for you and your tuba. I think the mouthpiece is too big. See if your instructor has a PT-65 (or PT-64) and try it. There is a reason why these are popular among F players.

[jonesbrass]

I was talking "high range issues" over with my wife recently, and we agreed that the secret to great high range is the same as to have a great low range: air flow and relaxation. "Pushing" "forcing" "muscleing" either end of your range is counterproductive. If you think the note is too high, it is. If you think the note isn't too high, it probably isn't. Most of the problem is in the player's head, and the solution is in the practice room. Are you playing the horn, or is the horn playing you?

[eupher61]

Well, in the last 40 hours I've had the horn on my face for most of 11 of them, plus working an extra long day at my day job Friday. Playing nothing but F, I've done and orchestra (show tunes, a couple of marches, only one TACET piece, Slavonic Dance #8), a ragtime concert, and 2 German shows, which are obviously face time intensive. While my chops were tired last night, there was no pain. No line from the rim. A little bit of swelling maybe, but some ice and a little stretching/free buzzing takes care of that.
===========
James, you need to figure out whether it's you using too much pressure on a suitable mouthpiece, or if the mouthpiece is encouraging you to use pressure. Whichever, it's not good. You can easily do damage to the muscles (they ain't exactly hamstrings), and you're by all means not allowing your chops to work to their maximum efficiency.

One more thing to try: Reconfigure the horn so you have more equal pressure points on both lips. If you're bending your neck down to look at the leadpipe to reach the mouthpiece, that may be part of the problem. Bring the mouthpiece to you.

[pierso20]

I mean, I'm in the boat that says "if it doesn't hurt, then it's probably ok". But I'd figure I'd throw out this question too.

Especially when playing F tuba in the upper register, I have always had a problem of using too much pressure. It's a crutch to overcome the weakness of my chops.

So, if you are using pressure to overcome embouchure, then it's too much pressure, whether it hurts or not, or whether it leaves a ring or not. The mouthpiece rim seals air and provides muscle isolation. Once the air sealed, more pressure is unnecessary. You should be able to buzz all the pitches on the mouthpiece holding it to your face lightly with two fingers. I can't do that reliably, but then I'm a lazy amateur who doesn't practice enough.

Rick "back to fundamentals" Denney

Yeah. Basic stuff right?

Reading this thread has been interesting...I'd make a bet though, that for me, I don't really use too much pressure. I get a ring around my mouth, but when I consciously back off the "pressure" it doesn't feel any different...so I might not use much..I guess.

Then again, my mouth is pretty sensitive to metals being on it, which may be why I get the "ring" so easily.


It is also interesting to do mouthpiece buzzes this way: Don't even "hold it up". Put it to your lips, and "hold" it up by placing your thumb under the mouthpiece at the balance point. This removes ANY temptation to "press". It's a neat way to test how much you press.


ALSO...!! ALSO...

I have a French Horn friend that has a "pressure mouthpiece"....not sure if anyone has seen one. Basically, when you press too hard, the mouthpiece "pushes" inward and open ups slots on the side which then allow air to escape and then, poof...no sound from the horn. It's a really cool way to learn how to play without pressure.

Any such thing for Tuba mouthpieces?

[Chen]

Brooke, Bruno Tilz makes the type of mouthpiece you are talking about. I bought one in 1997. Just choose a size from their selection and have it made that way. It's called MEGA 2000. For anyone not familiar with B. Tilz, they have equal. size of practically the entire Perantucci line. I don't think it's the answer though. If the mouthpiece size is wrong you'd just end up doing all sorts of weird things.

[pierso20]

Brooke, Bruno Tilz makes the type of mouthpiece you are talking about. I bought one in 1997. Just choose your size and have it made that way. It's called MEGA 2000.

COOL! Something to share with everyone in this thread too....they're super neat.

Thanks!

And I'm sure it's not THE answer. But of course, one of many tools that can be helpful.