Drum Corps as an artform

[Todd S. Malicoate]

Peace and long life.

"Art form" is in the eye of the beholder. I know we can all agree that what these dedicated, talented, and very hard-working young people do is very impressive.

[Mike-ICR]

As far as I can tell there is little to no argument here about drum corps being a musical genre. If a drum corps didn't march they would be a band. If music is considered a performing art then music being performed would be an art form.

[GJDavis1]

Just because something is performed at a high level, that does not make it an art. Tiger Woods' golf swing is artistic and beautiful, does that make it an art?

Does Tiger Woods play a brass instrument while swinging his club? Thats the difference...we're actually PLAYING MUSIC.

Seriously, what happened to friendly?

You make a post. You read opinions different from your own. You start defending drum corps as if it needs defending. You DID drop lines that made you come off as an elitist yourself. You talk about others being overzealous about drum corps. What do you think YOU are doing right now? Who gives a cr@p if people don't take it as seriously as you do?

The bottom line is that you're taking it WAY too seriously. It is entertainment. You all pay to take marching to some of the highest levels possible. It will NOT be taken as seriously as a symphony concert. It would probably be taken more seriously than a community band concert. In the end, they're all forms of entertainment because we are there to present a great product for an audience.

How is what I said not friendly? I was simply stating a fact. MULTIPLE times throughout my posts in this thread I have clearly stated that I don't blame you for your opinions. I also stated multiple times that I know there are many, many, many organizations at a much higher level than even the top corps. I also never said that I expect people to take it as seriously. Did I ever once say "I'm better than these people because I march"? No, I did not.

I clearly stated in the beginning of the thread that I wanted an open, friendly discussion about it. Message boards are meant for discussing, and a lot of the times, arguing. Thats what they're here for. Arguing can be friendly too. Of course I definitely found my answer to the question I asked at the beginning. Thats what I came here for...I also came here expecting the answer I received. Maybe in being angry at one of my teachers for being rude about what I do, I did the same thing in return. That happens sometimes, and for that I am sorry.

[Matt G]

I also believe Mike Roylance marched more than just FutureCorps.

IIRC (and this is very rusty), he marched "Magic of Orlando" in the late 1980s. He might have marched a higher level corps, I just can't remember what.

edit: I don't think it was Magic. I think it was the Suncoast Sound group of the late 1980s that won top awards for brass line.

I don't quite get how drum corps is the same as sending a kid off to theater camp...the level of excellence is quite a bit higher than a high school band or theater program. So I was kind of insulted in that regard, but you do have your own opinion. I mean, the Chicago Symphony Orchestra DOES have a much higher level of excellence than drum corps does, so maybe I see part of your reasoning.

Be careful. I understand that music is your main passion. However, there are groups that cater to the highest level of all performing arts:

http://www.trinityrep.com/education/stu ... s/camp.php

Don't feel insulted, you are still learning. The world out there is rather large and full of a lot of knowledge. I used to be ignorant of the other arts and not give them (nor their participants) their due. However, working on some decent level musicals and plays really changes your perspective.

[GJDavis1]

If I wasn't clear, I didn't mean summer programs for high school level kids. I meant high school marching bands. I know there are various summer music and performing arts programs for high school kids that have an extremely high level of excellence.

[OldsRecording]

I think that a lot of the residual anti-drum corps sentiment dates from the days before corps 'became' a musical activity.[/quote]

Before 3v bugles existed corps were using 2v horns (piston/rotor or 2 pistons) that couldn't play anything using the 3rd valve combos. Music had to be written in the proper range and key for these instruments or you'd have to skip every second note! That might have played a part in the "not real music" idea.[/quote]

Actually, back in the '2v Days', the music was simply written higher on the horn. As the horns were in G, that really didn't affect the sound. What I am referring to is the era from the '50's (when the drum corps movement really blossomed) to the early 60's (when technical evolution started to take hold). Back then, horns generally had one valve and maybe a half-step slide.

Gretsch%20Bugles.jpg

The music was taught (generally by non-musicians) essentially by rote and very little emphasis was put on technique, dynamics or musicality- it was simply loud. Of course, I am not referring to ALL corps in the 'early days'- I'm sure there were some that were very musical.

[TubaRay]

Drum corps is completely different from football for one huge reason : scores are not based off of performance alone. In football, scores are determined completely by the team's performance. In drum corps, or competitive music in general, scores are based off of OPINIONS. If football scoring was based off of opinions, I could see your reasoning.

Although I actually agree with the point of your statement, for the sake of humor I will raise this point. If football scoring is not based on opinions, what's the deal with the NCAA National Championship in football?

[GJDavis1]

Haha you have good point as well. When someone figures out how the BCS actually works, give me a call. lol.

[TonyTuba]

Don't be so quick to peg professional musicians as elitists. its just a matter of perspective. You portray an attitude of elitism to drum corps, the same thing you accuse the orchestra professionals of doing for their craft. I put it out there that you simply do not know of which you speak. Do you know these professional musicians? really know them? If you think they are elitist, you will probably never be one of them. if you think on their level, then you would be OK.

Its interesting that Chris Martin is the PR darling for drum corps. Its understandable, he comes from drum corps royalty in his family, and believes in the positive things it has done for him. While he was surrounded with the activity his whole life, he marched just one year, when he was 12. He spent the rest of his best training years at institutions like Brevard and other summer festivals, as well as the best music schools. The mentality that the path to the CSO goes through DCI is laughable, although marching corps will not prevent you from hitting the big time. You will need to go somewhere else in your training as well.

Why is it not really an art form... well, lets add another view. Orchestras and bands create spontaneous sounds though interpretation. When it is at its best it is not over rehearsed and packaged, but free to go in the moment and hit the emotions where they are at that moment in time. Drum corps, by its nature, is not designed for this. its not creating a musical package in the moment. Its making a musical moment and re-performing it over and over. This doesnt make it bad, just less artistic. I love drum corps. I love brass. But it is what it is, and if you are not willing or able to see that, just give it time and experience. You are too emotionally attached to it right now. This is one of the issues with DCI... the fanatics that are its make up.

[GJDavis1]

I have said countless times that I know there are many groups at higher levels than drum corps are. My impression of professional musicians was ruined when several instructors of mine insulted what I did, so it is only natural that I feel this way. When someone calls the music I play "crap", then its kind of degrading.

Sorry that you took what I said out of context...I'm not looking to insult people.

[adam0408]

I think sometimes the dislike of drum corps comes from disliking the rabid and undying devotion of many of the members. I have been in contact with a lot of people that have been involved in some really good corps at varying levels, (including caption heads) and they are just like musicians that have not played in Corps. Some are good, and some are not so good. Also, some of them are normal and well adjusted, and others are abrasive and odd.

Speaking from experience, it is VERY difficult to understand the phenomena of drum corps. Listening to people talk about drum bore (oops, corps) not having been involved in it is a bit like listening to people who have been in the military and are REALLY into it. It is definitely a cult following and is really foreign to people who have not done it.

People can be turned off by things that they don't fully understand, especially when the members display such fanatic and sometimes hard to understand emotions about the activity.

So maybe the statement that Drum Corps is not art or music comes from people that were completely freaked out and annoyed by an over-zealous fan, and do not fully understand or simply don't approve of what it appears to be.

Art is in the eye or ear of the beholder. If you like it, great.

[GJDavis1]

Drum bore? Good one, I haven't heard THAT before

In all seriousness though, I understand why you feel the way you do. I don't blame you for how you feel about corps. Many people here are EXACTLY right...drum corps is NOT as artistic as orchestra or band...of course you can't be as spur of the moment and expressive as you can in those ensembles, but to say the groups don't have artistic qualities or aren't playing real music is absurd. Thats why I do BOTH, so that I can get the experience of both groups.

However, I will say that there have been many times that I think about what my summer would have been like had I practiced instead of marching corps. I even think about that now as well.

Yes, there are corps fantatics. If I was a corps fanatic, I would be telling you that orchestra and band don't compare to drum corps or some other random garbage that isn't true. Why do you think I even posted on here? Simply to find out the majority opinion of the question I asked.

[adam0408]

Yes, there are corps fantatics. If I was a corps fanatic, I would be telling you that orchestra and band don't compare to drum corps or some other random garbage that isn't true. Why do you think I even posted on here? Simply to find out the majority opinion of the question I asked.

I didn't mean to accuse you of being a fanatic. Also, my personal jury is still out on wether or not I like drum corps. I just really don't like talking about it for hours, and you are clearly NOT the individual who gave me that feeling.

Drum Corps can be a really positive thing musically for some people.

[THE TUBA]

...drum corps is NOT as artistic as orchestra or band...of course you can't be as spur of the moment and expressive as you can in those ensembles, but to say the groups don't have artistic qualities or aren't playing real music is absurd.

That pretty much sums up my view on drum corps. Yes, it is art (particularly most DCI World Class corps), but not on the same level as professional classical ensembles. Is performing 1812 with a drum corps the same as with an orchestra? Absolutely not. That said, there is a level of artistry involved with the activity. Although I never decided to march, I have great respect for the activity and those who choose to participate in it.