Shipping via Greyhound or ....

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pgym
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Re: Shipping via Greyhound or ....

Post by pgym »

You might want to read the fine print in FedEx's Ground Tariff Terms and Conditions, particularly the section on Declared Value and Limits of Liability.

Some excerpts:
10. Declared Value and Limits of Liability (Not Insurance Coverage)

A. FedEx Ground liability with regard to any package is limited to the sum of $100 unless a higher value is declared at time of tender and a greater charge paid as provided in the FedEx Service Guide.
Commentary: Our maximum liability is $100.
B. The declared value of any package represents our maximum liability in connection with a package, including, but not limited to, any loss, damage, delay, misdelivery, nondelivery, misinformation, any failure to provide information, or misdelivery of information. Exposure to and risk of any loss in excess of the declared value is either assumed by the shipper or transferred by the shipper to an insurance carrier through the purchase of an insurance policy. The shipper should contact an insurance agent or broker if insurance coverage is desired. FEDEX GROUND DOES NOT PROVIDE INSURANCE COVERAGE OF ANY KIND. [Capitalized in T&C document]
Commentary: It doesn't matter what the person at the counter says, your package is not insured.
C. In cases where the shipper declares or agrees in writing that the property being shipped is released to a value exceeding $100 per package or article not enclosed in a package, an additional charge for each $100 or fraction thereof of total valuation will be assessed to which the base rate applies, up to a maximum declared value of $50,000 per package.
Commentary: You can PAY FOR a declared value or more than $100, BUT ...
D. Packages containing all or part of the following items are limited to a maximum declared value of $1,000:

1. Artwork, including any work created or developed by the application of skill, taste or creative talent for sale, display or collection. This includes, but is not limited to, items (and their parts) such as paintings, drawings, vases, tapestries, limited-edition prints, fine art, statuary, sculpture and collector's items.

2. Film, photographic images (including photographic negatives), photographic chromes and photographic slides.

3. Any commodity that by its inherent nature is particularly susceptible to damage or the market value of which is particularly variable or difficult to ascertain. [Commentary: like a tuba]

4. Antiques, or any commodity that exhibits the style or fashion of a past era and whose history, age or rarity contributes to its value. These items include, but are not limited to, furniture, tableware and glassware.

5. Collector's items such as sports cards, souvenirs and memorabilia. (Collector's coins and stamps may not be shipped. See the Prohibited Items section.)

6. Glassware, including, but not limited to, signs, mirrors, ceramics, porcelains, china, crystal, glass, framed glass and any other commodity with similarly fragile qualities.

7. Plasma screens.

8. Jewelry, including, but not limited to, costume jewelry, watches and their parts, mount gems or stones (precious or semiprecious), industrial diamonds, and jewelry made of precious metal.

9. Furs, including, but not limited to, fur clothing, fur-trimmed clothing and fur pelts.

10. Precious metals, including, but not limited to, gold and silver bullion or dust, precipitates or platinum (except as an integral part of electronic machinery).

11. Stocks, bonds, cash letters or cash equivalents, including, but not limited to, food stamps, postage stamps (not collectible), traveler's checks, lottery tickets, money orders, gift cards and gift certificates, prepaid calling cards (excluding those that require a code for activation), bond coupons, and bearer bonds.

12. Guitars and other musical instruments that are more than 20 years old, and customized or personalized musical instruments.
Commentary: We don't care HOW much you paid for that tuba; what WE say goes, and WE say it's worth no more than $1000.
E. ANY EFFORT TO DECLARE A VALUE IN EXCESS OF THE MAXIMUMS ALLOWED IN THE FEDEX SERVICE GUIDE IS NULL AND VOID. OUR ACCEPTANCE FOR CARRIAGE OF ANY PACKAGE BEARING A DECLARED VALUE IN EXCESS OF THE ALLOWED MAXIMUMS DOES NOT CONSTITUTE A WAIVER OF ANY PROVISION OF THE FEDEX SERVICE GUIDE AS TO SUCH PACKAGE. [Capitalized in T&C document]
Commentary: If you want to declare a value of $15,000, go right ahead. We'll charge you for $15,000 declared value, but the actual declared value is still only $1000.
F. REGARDLESS OF THE DECLARED VALUE OF A PACKAGE, OUR LIABILITY FOR LOSS, DAMAGE, DELAY, MISDELIVERY, NONDELIVERY, MISINFORMATION, ANY FAILURE TO PROVIDE INFORMATION, OR MISDELIVERY OF INFORMATION, WILL NOT EXCEED ITS REPAIR COST, ITS DEPRECIATED VALUE OR ITS REPLACEMENT COST, WHICHEVER IS LESS. [Capitalized in T&C document]
Commentary: Hell, if we can find some schmuck who'll "repair" it for 10 bux, we'll only pay you $10.
G. See the Liabilities Not Assumed section for other limitations and exclusions on our liability.
Commentary: We've got 37 more ways of screwing you out of the $100 you're entitled to if we lose or damage your tuba.

BOTTOM LINE: if you're shipping a tuba (or any other musical instrument) and it absolutely, positively has to be insured against damage and loss, contact an insurance agent or broker.

Pgym
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Re: Shipping via Greyhound or ....

Post by PKeen »

I purchased from Andy Smith a tuba last year and he purchased mine. We shipped both horns via Amtrak. Cost was $75 or less with additional insurance. It was the easiest transaction for a tuba I ever had to go through. Only problem is you have to check and see if there is a depot that accepts large items. You and the seller need to work out which major metropolitan area is close by to ship to.
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Re: Shipping via Greyhound or ....

Post by tokuno »

I shipped a Weril j680 (very similar in size, shape, and weight to a 621) from Northern California to Missouri for ~$80 insured to $2500 via Fed Ex. I think prices have gone up a tad since then (a little over a year ago).
It was trackable via Internet the whole way and arrived in fine shape.
I padded inside the case, including the beach-ball-in-bell trick, and I used two cardboard boxes to create an over-sized outer enclosure. I put a strong, but lightweight board on the bell-end to protect against crushing, and used squishy computer packing foam to center the case inside the box.
I confirmed the maximum enclosure for that shipping price, and used it all.
Lots and lots and lots of packing tape. The recipient had quite a chore to excavate the horn, but I've seen the shipping guys toss computer equipment off the tail of a commercial truck, so I felt the caution was warranted.

It was a good value, and the only cheaper shipping option that i knew of (Greyhound), wasn't that much less expensive to justify the lower insurance coverage. UPS quoted a much higher rate.

I took receipt of a King 2341 last month via Greyhound (West Virginia to California). In this case, the shipping cost was significantly less than any of the other options I researched. The sender provided a tracking number, but Greyhound didn't provide online tracking. I called Greyhound, and they could only confirm that they'd received the parcel, and that it would arrive in 5-7 days. On the 7th day, i called the local depot, and they'd been holding the package for two days - one wonders when they were planning to call me.
One oddity was an absence of an authentication requirement to claim the parcel. I said my name, and they handed it over.
The horn was packed in a Cronkhite bag with a beach ball and some disposable air pockets inside the case, and that was packed in a cardboard box with more of the disposable air pockets. There were no markings on the outside to indicate that there was a valuable, under-insured, largely untrackable, and easily pawned tuba inside. Just some "fragile" stickers and addressee info in a plain, inconspicuous brown box.
There was not a hint of damage. The horn is beautiful.

I've had two horns damaged. One by private, commercial carrier (euphonium - bent bell), and the other by the USPS (Yamaha tuba - bent bell). In both cases, the insurance covered the repair.
The Post Office was squirrely about the claim. I think the clerk tried to "nuisance" me out of filing, by claiming that she needed to hold the goods until the claim was settled (I called her bluff - I didn't need the horn, so told her to go ahead and store the ~big~ thing for me, but I wouldn't release it without a receipt. She paused, then told me to go ahead and hang onto it). The claims filing was about what I'd expect for government process - nuisance - but the check arrived pretty quickly.
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Re: Shipping via Greyhound or ....

Post by TubaRay »

the elephant wrote: How about a chain ship via friends? If you can get it picked up and bucket brigaded to bloke and he can hold it for a bit until I can get there, I would take it from him to any volunteers in Shreveport. Maybe a player there could courier it to Dallas, and so on and so forth.

Who will volunteer for this?

This will take a long time but will ensure that it is only ever touched by players along its journey.
I believe this is a great idea. I'm not sure if it is practical, but it certainly would be safer than anything presently available.
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Re: Shipping via Greyhound or ....

Post by Rick Denney »

Thankfully, my tuba arrived unharmed to its destination and is now in the hands of its new owner. The earliest it might have arrived was Tuesday, and it in fact arrived the following Sunday. Nerve-wracking, but all is well.

The take-away from this thread is:

1. All shipping methods impose some risk.

2. All insurance bought from the shipper is total BS, except possibly for a total loss, such as the package goes missing. Greyhound at least doesn't try to sell you bogus insurance.

3. Clarion covers damage from shipping, including total loss.

Rick "whose tubas are covered by Clarion" Denney
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Re: Shipping via Greyhound or ....

Post by TubaRay »

Rick Denney wrote:Thankfully, my tuba arrived unharmed to its destination and is now in the hands of its new owner.
Glad to hear it! It would have been a shame if it had been harmed, or disappeared altogether.
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Re: Shipping via Greyhound or ....

Post by Rick Denney »

the elephant wrote:
TubaRay wrote:
Rick Denney wrote:Thankfully, my tuba arrived unharmed to its destination and is now in the hands of its new owner.
Glad to hear it! It would have been a shame if it had been harmed, or disappeared altogether.
Which horn did he sell again? I was not listening…
Even I could not justify having two B&S Symphonie-style F tubas. I kept the six-valve instrument. There were some interesting aspects to the five-valve instrument's sound that aren't quite the same on the newer model, but for me the playability of the six-valve instrument won the day. It was not an easy decision, and I was not finally decided until I recorded myself playing a wide range of music on both instruments.

But given that both instruments are fabulous F tubas, I really could not go wrong, even if I just flipped a coin.

The five-valve Symphonie comes from the classic era for these instruments, and it's in good company where it went.

Rick "whose wife thinks Mike got the prettier one of the two" Denney
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Re: Shipping via Greyhound or ....

Post by TubaRay »

Two years ago, Mike was a little envious of me, when I purchased my Rudy. Now, it is my turn to be envious.
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Re: Shipping via Greyhound or ....

Post by Rick Denney »

TubaRay wrote:Two years ago, Mike was a little envious of me, when I purchased my Rudy. Now, it is my turn to be envious.
He apparently felt like I had edged in front of him while pursuing this F tuba also. Probably the only time I ever got in front of him. But you see where it ended up.

But he obviously needs your Rudy, short as he is of big Rudys.

Rick "no, Mike, the Martin is NOT for sale" Denney
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Re: Shipping via Greyhound or ....

Post by Mikelynch »

Rick,
It's not that I like the big Rudys . . . it's just that they are such a slimming accessory . . .

[which means, I guess, that I do need more--many more] :-)

I'll note that the very rare Martin is not on the market. But I am oh so looking forward to the restoration photos . . .

Mike
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Re: Shipping via Greyhound or ....

Post by Tuba Guy »

Mikelynch wrote:I'll note that the very rare Martin is not on the market. But I am oh so looking forward to the restoration photos . . .

Mike
I may be willing to sell my (possibly?) rare Martin, if the price is right...
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Re: Shipping via Greyhound or ....

Post by billeuph »

My experience last year with a WWBW-shipped VMI couldn't have been better. They shipped ABF freightlines, the shipment could be tracked on the web, and it was delivered to my home in a truck with a lift-gate. The box was strapped to a pallet, which the driver offered to take away if I didn't want it. The only down side was the time. Until the shipment arrived at the depot, you couldn't schedule a delivery. Once it arrived, the earliest delivery was a week later. So the last 20 miles of the trip took longer than the first 1000 miles.

If you can find a local company that will put your shipment on a pallet, this isn't a bad way to go. Around here (NJ), we have lots of shipping firms that will do this for you for a reasonable price.

Bill Anderson
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Re: Shipping via Greyhound or ....

Post by Mikelynch »

Tuba Guy,
I could be wrong--but it's unlikely your Martin has the special characteristics that make Rick's the rarity that it is. Of course, most of us who know Rick's Martin would say that's a good thing . . .

Mike
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Re: Shipping via Greyhound or ....

Post by Rick Denney »

Mikelynch wrote:Tuba Guy,
I could be wrong--but it's unlikely your Martin has the special characteristics that make Rick's the rarity that it is. Of course, most of us who know Rick's Martin would say that's a good thing
Hey, you denigratin' high-quality and high-tech polymer-silicon composites?

Huh?

Rick "Didn't think so" Denney
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