Writing for Elect. Bass & Using a Tuba

[Todd S. Malicoate]

I'll give another feeble reply:

Looking again at the original post and original question, you are completely correct that it's ridiculous for an entire section to play "thumping" bass lines around middle C. It's poor arranging, and I can just imagine what it must sound like. When it's well done, bass lines originally played on electric bass can be quite successfully performed by a section of tubas - the examples are too numerous to begin to mention. It's unfortunate that you're a "guinea pig" in this experiment for a student arranger, but it sounds like that's part of what you signed up for. I think it's nice that your school offers such a vehicle for students wishing to learn the finer points of arranging for band.

It sounds like you've expressed your concern to the arranger and were shot down. What is left to do but lay out on this particular tune for the greater good? Let Joe have his solo, and you can just fake it or whatever to make the piece work better. Most of us have been there, done that.

I'm still bothered by your use of the word "most" in your posts:

• "Most" arrangers are quite good, and do understand that you shouldn't write rock-style electric bass lines in the high register for a section of tubas. This student is apparently not one of them. That said, one of the ways a successful arranger learns the craft is by hearing the things they write and, hopefully, taking note of what works and what doesn't.
  
  "Most" tuba players wouldn't pick up an electric bass part and play it in the notated octave - "most" of us are savvy enough to know that bass parts are notated an octave higher than they sound.
  
  I seriously doubt that "a lot" of tuba players can't read a part down an octave without missing accidentals and/or rhythms that they wouldn't have missed anyway...it's simply not that difficult.

I hope that didn't sound too "how great thou art," and I fully understand that it doesn't change your situation at all. I simply don't think that there's anything you can do at this point. I'll leave you with a thought that sometimes comforts me:

• "Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."

Good luck with your concert and the rest of your studies!

[Rick Denney]

Is this just a college-band thing?

I've been playing in community bands and orchestras for 25 years, and I played for 8 years during school (those two periods being separated by another 8 years), and I have never, ever been asked to play an electric bass or string bass part in the octave written. My conductors have ranged from floor-door-window-ceiling hacks to highly gifted and trained conductors.

I've never seen a piece of music on the stand that evidenced a copyist who didn't know which octave in which to notate a tuba part.

I've never asked permission of the conductor to play the music in the correct octave, no matter how it's notated. Nobody has ever complained about my choices.

As a low-grade hobbyist, I've been able to read parts down an octave since early in high school. I've been expected to produce electric and string bass articulations since that time. I have played string-bass parts in a variety of settings, including an actual but small amateur orchestra, where our one string bass player (a retired pro) insisted that I give her a hand to bolster the section. I have more trouble reading it down an octave on F tuba, because that's not the instrument I normally use for those parts, and because I'm used to reading music in that register as written when playing F tuba.

It must be a college thing or some recent phenomenon, because I just don't see it. I have seen a lot of tuba parts that are not characteristic, but that's another problem altogether.

Rick "confused" Denney

[Dan Schultz]

Is this just a college-band thing?..... I've never seen a piece of music on the stand that evidenced a copyist who didn't know which octave in which to notate a tuba part.

I've never asked permission of the conductor to play the music in the correct octave, no matter how it's notated. Nobody has ever complained about my choices.

.... It must be a college thing or some recent phenomenon, because I just don't see it. I have seen a lot of tuba parts that are not characteristic, but that's another problem altogether.

Rick "confused" Denney

Ditto. I often sit in with a 'big band' when they don't have a bassist. The bass parts I'm given are written and octave higher than they are intended to sound. I've also never been asked to play them as written.

[rocksanddirt]

Is this just a college-band thing?

'snip'

Rick "confused" Denney

my take, and I agree with you that the director generally goes along with what should be done (or you don't ask, and just do it right)....is that this is a new phenomenon brought on by the increasing use of software to compose music. When you are writing it out by hand, and arranging it by hand, you take extra steps not to have to fix something by finding out the normal range and written style for the vairous sections in whatever group you are working with.

With modern software, it's easy to fix/change/reprint.....and the advanced college student is, of course, absolutely correct that it should be played exactly as it is written with no changes, because to change based on feedback... why....that's selling out his artistic vision.

[lgb&dtuba]

I will give a little bio. here as it may be relevant to some. I am a retired military musician having played in Navy Bands, Army Bands and Army National Guard Bands. I have played the Tuba for over 40 years, I am a former Music Education Major and have two undergrad degrees. I am taking Band as an elective credit and pursuing a Masters in Cultural Anthropology. I do not judge quickly.

After re-reading your op I see the basic problem here. You are an adult who has gone back into the madhouse known as college and you're having to deal with the crap that professors routinely dish out because they can. Of course the professor could care less about your opinion. He's used to lording it over 18 year-olds who don't know any better.

As an adult you already know that particular class means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. It's a diversion. Recreation. Get through it and move on. I'm sure you dealt with worse than that in your military career.

Good luck with your degree.

[Dan Schultz]

........ Why on earth, pray tell would an orchestra hire a one string ,– bass player, and why would she need help to play that one string??..... Robo

[TUbajohn20J]

........ Why on earth, pray tell would an orchestra hire a one string ,– bass player, and why would she need help to play that one string??..... Robo

Hey Dan do you still have that massive 46K?

[Dan Schultz]

........ Why on earth, pray tell would an orchestra hire a one string ,– bass player, and why would she need help to play that one string??..... Robo

Hey Dan do you still have that massive 46K?

Yup. Got a 46K AND a 48K.

[sloan]

Robo, I understand what you're saying and I agree. When I see string bass cues I select one of three options: 1)play as written if its in a comfortable range; 2)take it down an octave; or 3)don't play it at all. If the director wants e-bass part to be played, he should get an electric bass PLAYER (no smart director push the issue and risk alienating his tuba section).

That said, let me ask this: why even compose for instruments that are RARELY played in concert/symphonic bands??? Other than the premier bands in the military and your all-region/area/state/world bands, how often do you have a string bass player in the ensemble (or a damn harp)??? Ive been playing in concert bands for almost 40 years and Ive played in only ONE ensemble that had a regular string bass player. I think its just a waste of time--write for the instrument that's going to be playing the part 95+% of the time--TUBA!

JJ

I play in a small band with no string bass, and two other bands that have multiple string basses. I've played the same arrangements for many pieces with both situations. I estimate that 75% of the time I'm a lot happier when the string bass is there and covering his part - the ther 25% of the time the string bass cues just happen to be in the sweet spot (fun to play and don't sound wrong on the tuba).

On balance, I prefer to have the strings there. At least then I don't have some bozo stick-waver telling me "play it so it sounds like a string bass is playing it". If that's what he wants, then...

[Todd S. Malicoate]

...some bozo stick-waver telling me "play it so it sounds like a string bass is playing it".

To which I always reply:

• "Do you mean that I should play it at 1/3 volume, drag a bit, and play random notes out of tune?"

Funny...I haven't ever heard that suggestion from any given conductor a second time.