tubashaman2 wrote:In a jazz combo like setting, I can not see a tuba doing 3-4 sets due to endurance issues replacing the bass. I would consider it as part of the bone section
It's possible.
Turn it around and look at it completely backwards from the way you're looking at it right now:
Why "study" "the tuba" for 4, 6, or 8 years (and pay a bunch of dough to do it while earning very little dough) ONLY for a SLIGHT CHANCE at sitting in the back of an orchestra once or twice a month and playing no more than 15-20 minutes out of a 1-3/4 hr. concert?
I play 3 - 4 hour gigs (45 to 50 minutes on, 15 minute break) several times a month - 3 sets is a normal gig. I am playing 2, 4 or more notes in most every measure of every song, and we don't take very long between each song.
It is all a matter of getting used to playing, using a mic if needed, and developing the chops to do it. It is not like being in a large tuba section in a marching or concert band (I do that too) - every bass note the audience (and the rest of the band) hears is YOU! (The bass is both helping to keep the rhythm & tempo going correctly AND providing the root platform for the melody and harmony to work off - a lot of responsibility!)
(I have also watched Banda musicians play 4 to 5 hour gigs without any significant breaks, and the Sousaphone players are key players (and LOUD!)) Balkan brass bands also are a nice workout for the tuba player...
Another question - Why Mic on a tuba? A tuba can normally produce quite a bit of sound with a good player behind it and if more volume is required, such as for large venue, why not just use a 6/4, instead of 4/4 tuba to produce it with less effort instead of resorting to a mic?
Neptune wrote:Another question - Why Mic on a tuba? A tuba can normally produce quite a bit of sound with a good player behind it and if more volume is required, such as for large venue, why not just use a 6/4, instead of 4/4 tuba to produce it with less effort instead of resorting to a mic?
You can play much more lightly when amplified. Benefits in music as well as in stamina.
Arkietuba wrote:Well, if you wanna stay "true" to the genre...swing bands GENERALLY used a string bass. Now, "trad" jazz (i.e. New Orleans/Chicago jazz) bands used tuba/sousaphone along with string bass. They branched off from marching bands and so the bass voice of a marching band is the tuba so they used a tuba.
Would somebody post some compelling evidence that the tuba was the bass voice in traditional i.e. 20's jazz. This story seems to get repeated so much that it's become true, but I have yet to find overwhelming evidence to prove it. This book http://www.amazon.com/Pops-Foster-Autob ... 0520023552" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank does a lot to disprove it. I'm aware of the 50's dixieland records, (firehouse 5, 5+2, Dukes of, etc.) that (are great and) have set the standard instrumentation for modern traditional band, but when I listen to the original music, and or read original accounts, I am not convinced.
Anybody?
Thanks.
Peace.
ASG
A tuba player can play any type of music all night long but must physically work much harder than a string bass player.
Klaus nailed it with his post. Miking a tuba allows softer more subtle playing with more ease without having to struggle to balance volume with drummers, trumpets, saxes with metal mouthpieces, and electric pianos and guitars.
There are many jam places around here where I can take a tuba and show players from country, blues, jazz and trop rock bands exactly what I can do for them. I prefer to play acoustically as does bloke but most places require amps. I show up with tuba, playing stand ('cause I'm so darn old) and a 300 watt JBL Eon with a 15 inch speaker and a SM57 mike on a boom stand to get up with the electric guys.
Finding breathing places in a walking bass line or fast shuffle is a problem but we can play long tones and solo like any other horn.
Around here the novelty value of a tuba bass is a "hook" for booking purposes. People walk up to a bandstand with the usual drums, guitars and keyboards and if they see a tuba, the first thing they ask is to hear somebody blow that darn thing. A band will hire the best they can find to play bass. Hiring a tuba player is usually no problem if he or she is effective.
Arkietuba wrote:Well, if you wanna stay "true" to the genre...swing bands GENERALLY used a string bass. Now, "trad" jazz (i.e. New Orleans/Chicago jazz) bands used tuba/sousaphone along with string bass. They branched off from marching bands and so the bass voice of a marching band is the tuba so they used a tuba.
Would somebody post some compelling evidence that the tuba was the bass voice in traditional i.e. 20's jazz. This story seems to get repeated so much that it's become true, but I have yet to find overwhelming evidence to prove it. This book http://www.amazon.com/Pops-Foster-Autob ... 0520023552" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank does a lot to disprove it. I'm aware of the 50's dixieland records, (firehouse 5, 5+2, Dukes of, etc.) that (are great and) have set the standard instrumentation for modern traditional band, but when I listen to the original music, and or read original accounts, I am not convinced.
Anybody?
Thanks.
Peace.
ASG
Without going through extensive statistical analysis of discographies or payrolls from the period it would be hard to tell for sure (and the use of tubas in early recordings was much more common for technical reasons.) However, a quick look through the book "Black Beauty, White Heat - A Pictorial History of Classic Jazz 1920-1950" by Frank Driggs and Harris Lewine shows a fairly even balance of String Bass to Tuba/Sousaphone, with a few Bass Sax in there as well, for both publicity and stage shots of many bands in the 1920s to early 1930s. A few photos show both tuba and SB, but mostly it is one or the other. Bands in this book range in size from 6 or 7 to 15 piece or more, black and/or white musicians, from all parts of the world.
My gut feeling (after 25 years of playing this kind of music on a weekly radio show and collecting many hundreds of recordings) is that until about 1933 and the rise of "Swing Bands" a group would be just as likely to have a tuba as a string bass. After that a tuba might be available to the SB player as a double instrument (for some novelty numbers) but the SB was dominant from then on (until the trad revival of the 1950s when the tuba returned to some new bands.)
Arkietuba wrote:Well, if you wanna stay "true" to the genre...swing bands GENERALLY used a string bass. Now, "trad" jazz (i.e. New Orleans/Chicago jazz) bands used tuba/sousaphone along with string bass. They branched off from marching bands and so the bass voice of a marching band is the tuba so they used a tuba.
Would somebody post some compelling evidence that the tuba was the bass voice in traditional i.e. 20's jazz. This story seems to get repeated so much that it's become true, but I have yet to find overwhelming evidence to prove it. This book http://www.amazon.com/Pops-Foster-Autob ... 0520023552" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank does a lot to disprove it. I'm aware of the 50's dixieland records, (firehouse 5, 5+2, Dukes of, etc.) that (are great and) have set the standard instrumentation for modern traditional band, but when I listen to the original music, and or read original accounts, I am not convinced.
Anybody?
Thanks.
Peace.
ASG
My gut feeling (after 25 years of playing this kind of music on a weekly radio show and collecting many hundreds of recordings) is that until about 1933 and the rise of "Swing Bands" a group would be just as likely to have a tuba as a string bass. After that a tuba might be available to the SB player as a double instrument (for some novelty numbers) but the SB was dominant from then on (until the trad revival of the 1950s when the tuba returned to some new bands.)
Thanks, that's been my gut feeling also. I may try to find those books.
Peace.
ASG
