Firebird--new design, or modified 180?

[Ferguson]

Uhmm, I'm still trying to figure out where the line between bass tubas and contrabass tubas is. I was surprised to find (after reading this thread) that the 181 has a 0.83+ bore. . .should sound pretty good below GG. But the sounds I can identify on recordings (and I have no idea which instruments they are) are pretty "trombony"., and I'm not going there.
I'm shopping for a horn. I'm also kind of set in my ways, and having rotator cuff problems. If the Ffer is really a good way to go. . .I can learn new fingering. The bottom line, however, is that I seek a big, round DDDb or CCC.
Can a 181 or Firebird compete with an organ pedal down there?

Rotator cuff or similar arm ailments lead me to think rotary valves would be easier on your body, due to lighter spring tension, shorter throw, and ergonomic finger placement. But, playing low on a F tuba meas lots of valves down, and that can be more stressful on your hand as well.

Beyond that, I wouldn't think the 181 would be the best low range F tuba, even though it's fairly big. One can get used to the quirks of rotary F tubas, to which many posters will attest. Most any piston F tuba seems to have a broader sound to my ears. But again, you get a longer throw with pistons, which could be tiring to your body.

Had you considered a smaller rotary CC, or a rotary Eb? Just due to their extra length, many models of these would have a beefier low range, with fewer buttons down as well.

Best,

Ferguson

[tubashaman2]

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[J.c. Sherman]

"1987 is the earliest I can remember, maybe 1988. It has a curly-headed, blonde guy with facial hair and a big mug of beer practicing one. That is the type that Mary bought, formerly Ev Gilmore's. It has two leadpipes (or had). I performed on this tuba several times over my first few seasons here. It was a lot like the B&S."

I've played a few of those versions of the 181, and they were fabulous. I really liked them - and I don't like B&S Fs at all. Nor do I like the newer 181s at all. Really liked that late 80s version - I have the same beer-swilling ad in my collections too

J.c.S.

[jonesbrass]

Uhmm, I'm still trying to figure out where the line between bass tubas and contrabass tubas is. I was surprised to find (after reading this thread) that the 181 has a 0.83+ bore. . .should sound pretty good below GG. But the sounds I can identify on recordings (and I have no idea which instruments they are) are pretty "trombony"., and I'm not going there.
I'm shopping for a horn. I'm also kind of set in my ways, and having rotator cuff problems. If the Ffer is really a good way to go. . .I can learn new fingering. The bottom line, however, is that I seek a big, round DDDb or CCC.
Can a 181 or Firebird compete with an organ pedal down there?

Bass Tuba = F or EEb tuba
Contrabass = CC or BBb tuba
Bore size has nothing to do with it, other than the effect on the playing characteristics of an individual horn. Overall length has far more to do with sound (ie, F tuba is far shorter from mouthpiece to bell than a CC or BBb tuba), as does overall flare profile over that length. Not to mention your own personal "tonal fingerprint" that only you produce.
If you want "organ pedal," I definitely think you're going to get closer to that sound with a longer horn (CC or BBb tuba). Its not that an EEb or F tuba can't play down there, they definitely can in the right hands, it's just that you're not going to produce that same "organ" darkness and breadth of tone as easily down there. Of course, YMMV.