Breaking the Rules

[Wyvern]

NOW the instrument families are treated more like terraced dynamic machines.

I don't think that is entirely fair to the high standard of modern orchestras. I certainly frequently hear quiet and restrained brass. However, the percussion is often too prominent for my liking, but I know that is down to modern taste. People's musical concept has entirely changed since the days of Holst as a result of pop music and modern hi-fi's with sub-woofers. The world has changed. Possibly, music now needs to be louder and more dramatic to capture a modern audience's attention? A stronger bass is now expected, which is why 6/4 tubas are becoming more used.

[imperialbari]

'fesh'nul orchestra’ means?

I believe in the quality of your smallish string sections. I also remember you thinking that half of the strings in a certain prestige orchestra kind of freewheeled once you heard them. Yet my point is that the quality of ‘your’ players also is found in most high grade large orchestras.

Many years ago, 25 or more, Danish TV sent a feature on Barry Tuckwell, who then divided his year in months as touring horn soloist, months touring Australia with his original Australian quintet mates plus a pianist, and then months as the conductor in residence of the Tasmanian orchestra. That orchestra was really small, with 6 primi and down from there in the strings. They played The Ruslan and Ludmilla ouverture by Glinka. The strings worked very hard, and then there were these totally disproportionate trombones with model numbers like 42, 88H, 50B coming to mind. The 42 had been OK, but on the bass part.

Klaus

[Wyvern]

only two [hot-dog] bass players, btw

I played in orchestra with only two basses where the conductor came over to me and said, "we're short of basses, so give as much tuba as you like to give foundation!"

[Rick Denney]

I have also played bass trombone on tuba parts in a concert band

I'm glad you liked it. But I am reminded of Fred Young's description of a bass trombone's spectral content when playing in the tuba register: "sounds like a hammer on a frying pan." I've never been more annoyed than when a guest conductor decided that during the piece he was not conducting, he pulled out his bass trombone and blatted his way through the tuba part. Then, he looked at me to get psychological reinforcement. He was disappointed. It was clear to me that the only reason he played that part instead of the (needed) bass trombone part was because he could.

Rick "who feels about the say way about a tuba playing the Stars and Stripes piccolo solo" Denney

[Bob Kolada]

I have also played bass trombone on tuba parts in a concert band

I'm glad you liked it. But I am reminded of Fred Young's description of a bass trombone's spectral content when playing in the tuba register: "sounds like a hammer on a frying pan." I've never been more annoyed than when a guest conductor decided that during the piece he was not conducting, he pulled out his bass trombone and blatted his way through the tuba part. Then, he looked at me to get psychological reinforcement. He was disappointed. It was clear to me that the only reason he played that part instead of the (needed) bass trombone part was because he could.

Therefore... that outcome you experienced is the only possible one?

Bob"not denying that some just crank it out on such parts"Kolada

These bass tuba parts only played on F rules are arbitrary.

However, it seems that (in the US anyways) "contrabass parts" are mandatory on contrabass. Why can't I play Prok. 5, the Ride, Fountains,...on a big Eb (don't really know F that well! ) to good effect without getting flack (spelling?)? I'd think that a bit of edge on those peices would definitely be in character with the not-so-nice mood of those pieces.

Who here would perform The Planets on F tuba? The part says Bass Tuba, and the standard orchestral tuba in England at the time was in F. (Often a Barlow system F).

I would! Though honestly I would prefer to play it on Eb since that is what I've worked it up on, but I'd play it on F too if I could play them (working on that!).

[Rick Denney]

Therefore... that outcome you experienced is the only possible one?

I said I was glad you liked it.

But I wonder if you obtained the honest opinion of the tuba section to supplement your own.

Rick "who has never heard a bass trombone sound like a tuba, but there's a first time for everything" Denney

[Bob Kolada]

Therefore... that outcome you experienced is the only possible one?

I said I was glad you liked it.

But I wonder if you obtained the honest opinion of the tuba section to supplement your own.

Rick "who has never heard a bass trombone sound like a tuba, but there's a first time for everything" Denney

I did not say that it sounded like a tuba, only that it sounded good with tubas ("German" tubas, as if it makes any difference). And they also liked it.


Rick, I think you need to play with better bass trombonists (not to say that I am a "better" trombonist!).



(See how the standard protects itself!! )

[Rick Denney]

Rick, I think you need to play with better bass trombonists

Considering the band was lacking a bass trombonist on that occasion, he would have been a better bass trombonist had it been playing the bass trombone part. He was a good bass trombonist--just ask him. But when holding a bass trombone, he was a lousy tuba player.

I do recall once covering a bass trombone part with a Yamaha F tuba, at the request of the trombone section. We were playing Festive Overture and without that part covered it was not music. So, I suppose the cosmic balance was righting itself.

Rick "a lousy bass trombone player even when playing a bass trombone" Denney

[sloan]

I have also played bass trombone on tuba parts in a concert band

I'm glad you liked it. But I am reminded of Fred Young's description of a bass trombone's spectral content when playing in the tuba register: "sounds like a hammer on a frying pan." I've never been more annoyed than when a guest conductor decided that during the piece he was not conducting, he pulled out his bass trombone and blatted his way through the tuba part. Then, he looked at me to get psychological reinforcement. He was disappointed. It was clear to me that the only reason he played that part instead of the (needed) bass trombone part was because he could.

Rick "who feels about the say way about a tuba playing the Stars and Stripes piccolo solo" Denney

I had the opposite problem last May. The ensemble was a reunion of players who had played in a college orchestra (how I got involved is a long, strange story, but...there I was). Since I lugged my tuba so far cross-country, the conductor issued me a copy of the Bass Trombone part for one piece. So...should I play it...or not? During the first rehearsal, there was no Bass Trombone player - so I covered the part. At the second rehearsal, he showed up, so I listened and thought about it. At the performance, I decided that nothing good would come from my doubling his part, and sat out.

I play in a couple of groups that are "instrumentation challenged", so I get a lot of practice playing the cues. Almost always, if sounds better when the right instrument shows up. Sometimes it's fun to play the cues - but if I *never* play the string bass part for Russian Christmas Music it will be too soon for me (2-beat? OK! 4-beat? even better!! but 6-beat? no, thanks. A man has to breathe sometime.)

but...Stars&Stripes? c'mon Rick - you gotta love it. It's as beautiful as Dogs Playing Poker on black velvet!

[imperialbari]

Turns out that my conductor prefers my F sound for the Mahler song "Um Mitternacht". Rats! I still have to carry two horns!

But then playing that song will give you a premium payment for playing late hours.

Klaus