Bb Vs CC in orchestras

[Wyvern]

My experience is that one's musical taste (the sound you want from a tuba) and playing requirements and attributes change over time, so what might be the right tuba for you now, may not necessarily be the case in 10 years time.

If it is Bb or C (or Eb, or F) matters little as long as it works for you to produce the music with good sound in the group you are playing. In other words choose the tuba that works for you, rather than whatever is the fashion/tradition in your part of the world.

Jonathan "who is a tuba maverick in the land of brass bands"

[jeopardymaster]

A gentle reminder to all that the initial poster lives in Hawaii. Unless he is prepared to make an expensive field trip or just rely on our word for it, he's going to want local resources for direct input as to tubas. Perhaps a good place to start is with whoever is playing in the Honolulu Symphony these days. Another would be to try to check with the local military bandsmen - quite a few choices, I should think, and as I expect Hawaii's a plum assignment I would also think the quality of players would be creme-de-la-creme.

[Donn]

If, as is implied by previous posts, you are sitting in the middle of a store like Dillons, one afternoon, comparing the 15 CC tubas that are surrounding you, adding different mouthpieces in the process, can cloud that comparison.

Well, suit yourself - drive day and night to a store like Dillon's, and try all those tubas with only one mouthpiece, if that's easier for you.

[J.c. Sherman]

Which is better to use in a symphony a Bb or a CC tuba?

Yes

Is their one advantage one of the keys have over the other?

Not really, not between those two.

Is it ok to use a Bb tubas as your main for symphonies over a CC which is very common in symphonies?

Yes.

Or just play an Eb and everything will be easier.

[Lee Stofer]

Rick D. said that there are more great CC tubas than BBb out there. I must respectfully disagree. The major high-end tuba sellers in the US may have a larger percentage of CC tubas in their inventory than BBb, but worldwide, I believe that there are as many great BBb tubas as CC, perhaps more.

To the original poster - Yes, it is fine to play a BBb/CC/Eb/F tuba in an orchestra, or anywhere else, as long as it is a good-enough instrument, and you play it well-enough, which could be said of any musical situation.

Advantages? I recently heard one of the finest orchestral bass trombonists in the world say that he likes how the trombones "line-up" intonation-wise with a BBb tuba. Yes, I know what you'll hear for the most part in University-Land, but I jumped off the tuba-fashion bandwagon over 10 years ago, selling my CC and buying a BBb, and I found that if you practice and play well-enough, no one cares what key it is in.

You are a performance major, so should you learn CC tuba? Yes, it is a good experience. Brass quintet music, for the most part, seems to be written with the CC tuba in mind, and it is really good to know CC fingerings fluently. Does that mean that you should feel like you HAVE TO play CC tuba as your main instrument? Hardly. I'd strongly suggest, as you can get you hands on the different instruments, that you learn how to play tubas in all four keys. Learn treble clef, have at least a certain familiarity with tenor clef, and be prepared to double on another instrument (string bass, electric bass, euphonium, trombone are good options) if you really want to be able to make a living at this.

[Rick Denney]

Point taken. I may be more fanatic than some at times when I am curious about the key of a tubist's horn. I'll try to sit/stand at the appropriate angle and/or watch the video so that I can track what valves are being pressed. It's a trivial matter, but there it is.

I suspect that my music director was not so curious as to be willing to undermine his concentration while leading the group, even if he could see my fingers (which he couldn't), and willing to save it for an opportunity to have something to chat about with the new tuba player in the ensemble.

Rick "noting that said professional is also not by any means an equipment hound like I am" Denney

[Rick Denney]

Rick D. said that there are more great CC tubas than BBb out there. I must respectfully disagree. The major high-end tuba sellers in the US may have a larger percentage of CC tubas in their inventory than BBb, but worldwide, I believe that there are as many great BBb tubas as CC, perhaps more.

I would agree with this distinction, depending on what sort of instrument one prefers. In rotary tubas, this is absolutely true--the high-end Bb rotary tubas in Germany are as good as any C rotary tubas. Maybe better in some cases. For 5/4 piston tubas, I think there are more choices in C, but even the best C might be no better for a particular player than the best Bb. Is there a Bb tuba of the same size and quality as a Thor? Tough question, and each must find his own answer to that. Maybe a Miraphone 1291-though without intonation as good as the Thor. Is there a Bb grand orchestral tuba of the same size and quality as a Meinl-Weston 6450 or Yamayork or Yorkbrunner? I don't know of any that are available new. An old Holton, if it's one of the good ones, give them a run for their money in terms of playing, but certainly not in terms of construction quality or detailing. And maybe not in terms of intonation. Good old Holtons are not that easy to find.

But in comparing most piston C tubas against a Rudy Meinl Bayreuth Bb, the Rudy will not be outclassed by any of them. In the German rotary tuba world, the high-end Bb tubas rule the roost, because that's what their orchestra professionals use.

Rick "thinking what's available world-wide isn't always helpful to a student in the U.S." Denney

[windshieldbug]

A gentle reminder to all that the initial poster lives in Hawaii.

Which may make a good choice less convenient, but not easier to make!

[sloan]

Bb tubas are to be used in "concert bands".

C tubas are the best types of tubas for "wind ensembles".

A# and D# tubas are specially designed to be played in "symphony orchestras".

F tubas are specially engineered to be bought prior to graduate school and then sold after one has dropped out of graduate school.

And G tubas are best suited for <youth activity deleted> and Bydlo.

[ekwjr]

I also think the key you choose has to do with your background. If you are changing key of horn, which will be the most natural transition for you.

As a large percentage of tuba players do, I started out as a trumpet player, was recruited to play an Eb my junior year in High School by using the "Read the bass clef as treble, add three sharps" method. Now at 57 years old I play a CC, which I think is the most natural transition for trumpet or Baritone Treble Clef players.. If you can read bass clef, the fingering is virtually identical. I looked into learning the BBb fingering, but it seemed so foreign to me, it would have taken much longer to learn.

I play in a community concert band, brass ensemble, and sit in occasionally with a trad-jazz group, and have had no issues to do with the key of my horn whatsoever. In fact, I rarely even have to pull a tuning slide!! It has seemed to blend well with whatever other instruments are in the group. I agree with the other tubists, the key doesn't matter nearly as much as how you play, and are you tuned into you horn!!

For my type of playing, a contrabass is a better fit then an Eb or F would be. A bass tuba would be more difficult with the lower range I seen to be in most of the time.

I am definately finding out that if you play in a variety of groups, having a large horn (6/4 or 5/4) and a smaller one (4/4, 3/4) would be nice. In smaller ensembles my horn is a little too much horn, but has taught me to have better control with dynamics. When I can afford it I would like to pick up a 3/4 or compact 4/4 for small ensembles. The brass ensemble I play in has two trumpets, two trombones, an euphonium, and me on a CC Tuba. All the other instruments are Bb horns, and sound great with my CC tuba.

[tubatom91]

F tubas are specially engineered to be bought prior to graduate school and then sold after one has dropped out of graduate school.

look's like I'm heading in the right track then, eh?

[jonesbrass]

You are a performance major, so should you learn CC tuba? Yes, it is a good experience. Brass quintet music, for the most part, seems to be written with the CC tuba in mind, and it is really good to know CC fingerings fluently. Does that mean that you should feel like you HAVE TO play CC tuba as your main instrument? Hardly. I'd strongly suggest, as you can get you hands on the different instruments, that you learn how to play tubas in all four keys. Learn treble clef, have at least a certain familiarity with tenor clef, and be prepared to double on another instrument (string bass, electric bass, euphonium, trombone are good options) if you really want to be able to make a living at this.

Great advice, Lee. Here's the BLUF, IMHO: it is important that you can play your a$$ off, it is not as important which tuba you are playing on, unless the guy/gal signing your paycheck tells you to play something specific.

[MartyNeilan]

F tubas are specially engineered to be bought prior to graduate school and then sold after one has dropped out of graduate school.

But then how would one play the Vaughan Williams for non-paying community band appearances?

[The Big Ben]

An old Holton, if it's one of the good ones, give them a run for their money in terms of playing, but certainly not in terms of construction quality or detailing. And maybe not in terms of intonation. Good old Holtons are not that easy to find.

It also seems that an old Holton needs a great mechanic to get it in proper shape. Many of them weren't put together well in the first place and, this many years down the road, may be pretty sad. With proper overhaul, a mediocre Honton can be made to play wonderfully. Unfortunately, a 'proper overhaul' by someone who knows what they are doing can be quite expensive.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

F tubas are specially engineered to be bought prior to graduate school and then sold after one has dropped out of graduate school.

But then how would one play the Vaughan Williams for non-paying community band appearances?

On a contrabass? *ducks*