Bill Bell’s F Tuba

[TheHatTuba]

Was Bill's F tuba a 4 valve or 5?

[TYA]

Four front-action pistons. I believe the bore on Bell's F is in the approximate range of (if not precisely) 21/32".

I have here what I'm pretty sure is the identical bugle (bell & bows - Eb). fwiw, I also might be able to dig up the original top-action (5/8" bore) valveset to this Eb (??) I'd be willing to sell it for not-a-whole-lot, if someone might want to try to build a reasonable fax' front-action valveset (harvested from a couple of Olds 0-99/Reynolds TB-10 tubas, etc...??) for it as a fairly faithful F conversion Bell model replica.

How Much work do you think it will take to build this tuba and put it together?

[TheHatTuba]

I have here what I'm pretty sure is the identical bugle (bell & bows - Eb). fwiw, I also might be able to dig up the original top-action (5/8" bore) valveset to this Eb (??) I'd be willing to sell it for not-a-whole-lot, if someone might want to try to build a reasonable fax' front-action valveset (harvested from a couple of Olds 0-99/Reynolds TB-10 tubas, etc...??) for it as a fairly faithful F conversion Bell model replica.

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[Bob Kolada]

Four front-action pistons. I believe the bore on Bell's F is in the approximate range of (if not precisely) 21/32".
I have here what I'm pretty sure is the identical bugle (bell & bows - Eb). fwiw, I also might be able to dig up the original top-action (5/8" bore) valveset to this Eb (??) I'd be willing to sell it for not-a-whole-lot, if someone might want to try to build a reasonable fax' front-action valveset (harvested from a couple of Olds 0-99/Reynolds TB-10 tubas, etc...??) for it as a fairly faithful F conversion Bell model replica.

Kanstul makes .655 valves (Db valve on the F contra) so that could be used as a 5th valve (or even all of the valves, if one were inclined to stick a rotary valve set on the horn instead of pistons).
I think, but have not confirmed, that my King front valve Eb is the same bore and have considered getting one to add as a 4th but it would require redoing the tuning slide to make room, Also, routing all the tubing would be tricky as the horn is somewhat compact.

[The Big Ben]

I have here what I'm pretty sure is the identical bugle (bell & bows - Eb). fwiw, I also might be able to dig up the original top-action (5/8" bore) valveset to this Eb (??) I'd be willing to sell it for not-a-whole-lot, if someone might want to try to build a reasonable fax' front-action valveset (harvested from a couple of Olds 0-99/Reynolds TB-10 tubas, etc...??) for it as a fairly faithful F conversion Bell model replica.

How much is "not-a-whole-lot"?

Take it outside, fellas! (PM or e-mail)

[Uncle Markie]

Don Butterfield told me H.N. White closed down the King factory for a day to make Bell's F tuba - well, not the whole factory, but probably it was assembled in a day from existing parts already on hand. Those were the days!

We had a King E-flat at NYU (1960s) of the model discussed here and I have no idea what became of it - but it was old, silver plated. It had only three valves, was .687 bore, and had the old "canted" valves - like Conn had for years. I tried it and found I had to use something shallower than my White #26 on it to get up to snuff on the intonation, which wasn't great. As I remember it, it played very flat. I think I used a King #24, which was their stock E-flat sousaphone mouthpiece - a little more angular rim and shallower cup than the #26. Don and I both thought it would make a great F tuba if cut down correctly, but nothing ever came of that. I think that horn dated from Bell's time teaching at NYU - which rarely gets mentioned in his biographies, but he taught there for years.

(Conn-Selmer could do themselves a favor and bring back their proprietary mouthpieces of the past - including the King #26, King #24 and the Conn #2. Bell, Butterfield, and Lew Waldeck all played the #26; Harvey did all that wonderful playing on a Conn #2 - the same mouthpiece that came in the box with the fiberglass sousaphone!)

Bell used a Conn double bell euphonium from time to time in the orchestra (missing the small bell! - likely left it at McSorley's Alehouse) and probably liked the similar configuration on the small King E-flat; plus he probably got it for free...

As I remember hearing from Don, Bell didn't have an (or like to play much) in the upper register and used high horns to play high parts (Ophicleide parts - Berlioz, etc). The trumpeters do this all the time of course.

It's worth noting that Bell could surmount many anomalies in horns that would drive other tuba players completely nuts. He would instantly substitute fingerings, and figure out how to "get around" on just about anything. If it was comfortable to hold, and valves worked decently, he'd figure out how to play past the intonation problems with ease. I borrowed one of the first Meinl-Weston CCs in 1967 Don B had on consignment from Bell and gave it back - overweight, horribly out of tune and sticky valves - yet Bell insisted it was a good horn and that Meinl had "copied" his CC King (although most of these were not very good horns either). To Bell, it was a really nice horn. I thought it an overpriced dog. Plus, working under a handicap during my playing career (lack of talent) I needed all the help I could get - and couldn't abide a horn I had to fight with.

I use a 2341 new model King today, and my old Martin Handcraft. If I needed an e-flat or F, I'd investigate that Chinese Fletcher model - looks like it would get the job done for less money than trying to resurrect Bell's old F.

Just sayin'...

Mark Heter

[Frank Ortega]

Did you ever finish this project JC? Do you have pics?

I had a little Conn cut down from Eb to F by Dillon music that I adored.
It had some minor intonation flaws, but very workable. One of those "wish I hadn't sold it" horns.

Here's a pic:

[J.c. Sherman]

That's on the "finish it later" counter; I have the bugle, but finding a valve set I'm okay with has been a challenge (4 valves with the smaller bore). I have my antenna up for that, then it'll be quick work

J.c.S.

[Bob Kolada]

https://psbehrend.psu.edu/news-events/e ... achristmas" target="_blank" target="_blank


Is this (what the director's holding) something similar?

[J.c. Sherman]

That's Gary Viebranz from Penn State Erie, and he's holding his very rare Willson F. Very nice - and very little! - 4-valve F tuba. The bore is much larger then the Bell instrument.

[Bob Kolada]

Thanks! It kinda looked like King lacquer to me.

[Frank Ortega]

If you look for a York or Holton Eb sousaphone from the time period, that might work well.
They are usually about .656 bore. You may even find a 4 valve. Of course the angle may be a little more severe than desired. But that's personal preference.

[Frank Ortega]

Do you still have that King body and parts, Bloke?