versatile F Tuba?

[ckalaher1]

I've spent just a little bit of time on the Petrushka, and while I thought the tuba had some great features, I decided that it would not be the tuba for me. It could be chalked up to mouthpiece selection, my lack of experience with piston F's, or my own chops in general, but I couldn't get the upper register to sing very well. Instead, I perfer the Meinl Weston/Melton 45 SLZ or a PT-15. The Kodiak is a nice model as well, but seems to be very expensive.

To each his own though. Best of luck on your search.

[cle_tuba]

I had three tubas in F before YFB 822. A MW 45S, a PT-10 and a Korchendorfer, all tubas are very good, but the Yammy is complete!!
For both orchestra and for brass quintet or solos, simply to know which mouthpiece to use the instrument is there ready to be played!

[bort]

I always thought the 45-SLP was a good model as well. Maybe not as 100% pure F as some people might want, but I think it could be a very versatile tuba.

[toobagrowl]

^ It is a good F tuba!! I'm not really an F player, but I did play on a MW 45SLP(s) years ago. It's like a combo of an Alex' or Mira' rotary F and Yammie piston 822. The sound is a bit fatter than the rotary F's, but has more zing and color than the Yammie F's. The low range & response is the same way - more stable and responsive than the rotary F's; not quite as stable & responsive as the Yammie F's. It's a very good "compromise" F tuba.

[TYA]

Sorry this is kind off topic but can a small(3/4) CC take the place of an F tuba?

[Wyvern]

Sorry this is kind off topic but can a small(3/4) CC take the place of an F tuba?

Not really, the tone of a CC is quite different

[TYA]

Sorry this is kind off topic but can a small(3/4) CC take the place of an F tuba?

Not really, the tone of a CC is quite different

May I just ask how is the sound different? I have never played a Bass tuba before and I am really wondering how they are different. Thank you

[Wyvern]

To generalise the CC will have a broader, fatter tone, while an F tuba is a clearer more soloistic sound (think of it as half way to a euphonium).

Eb tubas usually have a tone somewhere in the middle - some lean towards CC such as the Besson Sovereign and others such as the Miraphone Norwegian Star are more F sounding

You really need to hear for yourself - very difficult to describe sounds in words!

[Rick Denney]

When people want a big orchestral contrabass tuba, they get a big one. When they want a small one, they get a small one. It's pretty obvious when comparing them that the big ones work best for big ensembles, and the small ones for smaller ensembles (or for a more compact sound in a big ensemble).

When it comes to F tubas, though, everyone comes in with different requirements looking for the one F tuba that fits all situations.

Some want their F tuba to sound like a more compact C, so that they get a broad sound but with easier accessibility, accuracy, and clarity in the upper register. For them, a large F might serve in lieu of a small C.

Others want an F that sounds uniquely like an F--with a sound somewhere between a contrabass tuba and a euphonium.

Still others want an F that works in a quintet, where the tuba can blend with the trombone or being distinct from it as the music demands.

And still others want an F tuba for solo work that sits in the upper register, and for them, the tone in the upper register is the paramount concern.

Then there are the German orchestral tuba players, who expect an "orchestral" F to be the default tuba for all but the largest orchestral works.

Some folks discriminate solely on how easily the instrument plays a low C.

This is separate from the routine issues of valve preference and sound concept which exist for tubas of all pitches, and it's different from usual selection factors such as intonation.

There is no one F tuba that will excel in fulfilling all the requirements that emerge from these different playing situations. There are some that would excel in one and be adequate in another, with perhaps a change in mouthpiece. Some are very good at many things without being the best possible at any one thing. But none are optimal in all situations.

So, before you can ask for advice about F tubas, you have to define the playing conditions you anticipate in addition to the usual preferences of valve type and some discussion of the sound you want. When your teachers expresses an opinion about any given instrument, he should do the same thing. So should people who respond to threads like these, and some do. Total versatility is a myth.

I have played a lot of F tubas, and owned several. A long time ago, I owned a 4-valve Musica that was actually quite competent in and above the staff but when pushed in the low register would sound like a stuck pig. I still own a Yamaha 621 which is amazingly versatile for its size. The C version of that instrument was designed in cooperation with Renold Schilke and Chuck Daellenbach, and I think the F tuba in that configuration is even better than the C. But it has a ceiling beyond which it will not go, and if you need something louder than that, you'll have to use a shallow mouthpiece and go trombone-like, or choose a larger instrument. It is not an ideal orchestral F tuba, though some tuba players are good enough to make it work. Bobo's variation of the 621 is reportedly excellent, but he intended it as a solo instrument, not an orchestral instrument. The 621-series Yamahas have an exceptional low register, considering their small dimensions. As much as I like these, however, I have to agree that getting a colorful sound from them requires some careful mouthpiece selection.

The Yamaha 822 is a much larger instrument that was designed in cooperation with Jim Self, and that instrument sounds much more like a small C than a big F. It takes significant effort to produce a really colorful sound on the instrument, but there are those who do just that. As a pure orchestral F, with a particular sound in mind, it can be excellent. But it's demanding as a solo instrument, in my opinion. I would put the Willson 3200 F in the same category, though I personally like it a lot better (especially the rotary version).

I would quibble with Steve Hoog a bit--it was the original B&S Symphonie that first taught us that an F tuba could be large without losing its inherent F-tuba qualities. The PT-10 was a later (relatively minor) variation on that instrument. Many believe that the original B&S defines the ideal F tuba sound, but that is, of course, an opinion. It happens to be one that I share. That makes it a superlative solo instrument. But even though some think of it as a small F by current standards (which I think is just nutty), one still has to exercise control in a small ensemble. It can bury a quintet. It can also perform admirably in an orchestra as the default instrument. In my view, this is as close as it gets to a truly versatile F tuba, but getting the big orchestral tone from it, especially in the low register, will require some devotion.

The Petroushka is an amazing instrument, based on the small sample I've been able to experience. It could well end up one of the great F tubas. There are many others that I have tried, but not enough to really have an opinion, or with enough clarity of purpose to find their best qualities, within the context of my own skill.

There are many great F-tuba choices out there right now. Before trying them out, though, think about the role you need to fill using an F. In college, your principle applications might be chamber and solo music, and that might suggest a different alternative than you might make in later life as your situation changes. It's easy to judge an F on how loudly it plays, or on the ease and instant clarity of the low C, etc. The more you think about your intentions, the more accurate your selection will be. Remember, though, that it is the player who is versatile, and being versatile, will know when the instrument supports that skill.

Rick "who has played F in a lot of situations" Denney