Mystery Valve Set

[tbn.al]

The reason I'm asking is because I don't know. What I can find out doesn't seem to fit together.

1. Reynolds broke away from HN White and started his own company in 1936.
2. He retired and sold the company in 1946.
3. He was lured out of retirement by Olds in 1948.
4. The O-99 shows up in 1960??? ostensibly designed by Kanstul and Reynolds????
5. Reynolds and Olds merged in 1979.

Question? Was the almost identical to the O-99, Reynolds TB-10, already in existence before the merger in 1979. This doesn't seem plausible to me but then again if I knew I wouldn't be asking. I really think it was and somewhere in the back of my mind I believe I understood at one time that it was the predesessor of the O-99. I don't have any catalogues to check, so I'm asking what if any is the connection between the two designs?

[cjk]

1964: The assets of the F.A. Reynolds Co. were purchased by Maurice Berlin and the Chicago Musical Instrument (CMI) company; at the time, CMI was one of the largest musical instrument distributors in the world and owned F.E. Olds, Lowrey Organs, Gibson Guitars and several other firms.

As the new owners of F.A. Reynolds, one of CMI’s first actions was to pack up and move the company from its long-time plant in Cleveland to a new manufacturing facility in Abilene, Texas (August). With the move to Texas, CMI began the merger of F.A. Reynolds’ and F.E. Olds’ operations. Production for both companies during 1964-1970 was split between the Olds’ plant in Fullerton (350 South Raymond Avenue, Fullerton, CA) and the new Reynolds factory in Abilene (5520 North First Street, Abilene, TX). The trumpet, cornet, horn (except nickel-silver models) and trombone lines for both companies were made at the Olds plant in Fullerton, while the other brasses (plus nickel silver horns) for both companies were made at the Reynolds plant in Abilene. Some low brass parts, particularly tuba and sousaphone bells, were produced in Fullerton and then shipped to Texas for assembly with other parts being made in Abilene.

Olds and Reynolds were apart of the same company as early as 1964.

I don't think the TB-10 is the predecessor of the 0-99. I think the opposite is true. The TB-10 showed up around 1970. Around 1970, the Abilene Texas plant was sold to Conn and all production was moved to Fullerton. Therefore, all the tubas being made by Olds and Reynolds were being made in the Olds factory. The TB-10 is an Olds 0-99 made to look like a Reynolds.

[Dan Schultz]

Isn't this your valve section? I mean the one on the BIG horn. These are both Reynolds horns.

[Dave Hayami]

Hello,
The only difference that I can see is that the Reynolds braces that I have seen on both my horns, (Tuba and Sousaphone) and the pictures posted all have 8 sided feet. The braces posted with the valve section in question has rounded feet like an Olds. The single loop 3rd valve circuit reminds me of the Conn 2J(which really is a CC Olds with a bigger flared bell).
JMHO
dave hayami

[Dan Schultz]

Isn't this your valve section? I mean the one on the BIG horn. These are both Reynolds horns.

Yes, that is it.... Any close-up photos of this tuba model would be appreciated. I am not looking for comparisons, just the original. ....

Sorry... that is the only image I have. This was a customer's horn and I only took this single image to point out the size difference in these two Reynolds tubas. The 4V version of the 0-099 is on the right and the BIG one on the left is the TB-09 (I think).

[cjk]

Would one then assume that F.A. Reynolds brought the O-99 design with him when he left Reynolds and joined Olds? These horns are reputed to be virtually identical but I can't believe that Reynolds would be able to skirt the patents, unless he owned them personally. I'd like to know which design came first as I have always assumed they happend simultaneously.

It is just like Chinese *cloning* -- No harm, no foul. Right? Who is going to enforce the law if it is "good for competition" for us to steal (or, ahem, clone) designs?

Exactly what law is being broken here?

There are no patents on Reynolds or Olds tuba designs. I have actually searched the US patent database. The TB-10 was not produced until both Olds and Reynolds were part of the same company. Both the 0-99 and TB-10 came out of the same factory in Fullerton California. One wasn't a copy of the other. They are the same instrument with different ornamentation.

With regards to "cloned" tubas, if I had the means and desire, I could copy a Kanstul F tuba. As long as I did not copy Mr Kanstul's special rotor which he DOES have a patent for, I understand that it would be legal. People might not like it and I might not sell any, but I do believe it would be legal.

"Cloned" tubas are no more illegal or immoral than generic drugs. Everybody likes to save a ton of money at the pharmacist's counter, don't we?