Marching Band Help D:

[TMurphy]

We have to use kellyburg for marching because we play lots of high notes and the bits on our tubas arent strong enough to hold metal. I understand the basics of partials and embouchure, i just dont like the blatty harsh sound i get when playing low tones.

Not sure I understand. What, exactly, do high notes and the tubas "not being strong enough" have to do with needing to use a plastic mouthpiece? Not strong enough for what??

[NewSousa2010]

We have to use kellyburg for marching because we play lots of high notes and the bits on our tubas arent strong enough to hold metal. I understand the basics of partials and embouchure, i just dont like the blatty harsh sound i get when playing low tones.

Not sure I understand. What, exactly, do high notes and the tubas "not being strong enough" have to do with needing to use a plastic mouthpiece? Not strong enough for what??

my band director gets tired of hearing mouthpieces hit the ground, and we can play longer on plastic.

[Chobbie]

Sounds like a worthless teacher if he she is more concerned about the durability of the mouth piece over sound quality.

[Mike Finn]

Sounds like a worthless teacher if he she is more concerned about the durability of the mouth piece over sound quality.

Ouch, that's pretty harsh. Plastic mouthpieces are cheaper (for a band director strapped for funds) and because they are lighter less likely to cause worn out bits and necks to swing out of position or fall out. There have been several discussions about the sound of plastic vs metal (and types of metal) with many here agreeing that the difference is small enough for other factors such as comfort and durability to tip the scale in their favor, at least for outdoor gigs. A pretty respected pro here not only uses a plastic mouthpiece, but has recently sung the praises of plastic sousaphones. Many of us have decried the band directors who let their kids beat up and totally trash their instruments, only to replace them every couple of years. (Ever seen a metal mouthpiece after it's hit the hot asphalt a bunch of times?) Without knowing more about the situation than our OP has told us, I'm not ready to pass judgement on the teacher, and that's coming from a band director, sousaphone player, and mouthpiece salesman!

[iiipopes]

I know you said "no money," and your dad is a "do it yourself or at school kind of guy," but, the Kellyberg is a huge mouthpiece for someone starting on tuba. The 20K has great resonance by itself. Will you dad consider popping @$50 for a Conn 7b Helleberg (the shallower one)? This is slightly smaller in diameter and slightly shallower than the Kellyberg, and should help you center pitches and get on with developing your technique better without overblowing or risking the "smile" instead of proper firming your embouchure at the corners and learning proper breath support. It's different on a tuba, as you have to do it yourself from your diaphram and intercostals, as there is less resistance, as you've found out, than with a bari sax mouthpiece. Then as you progress in your technique, you can consider going back to a mouthpiece the size of the Kellyberg after a year or so if you want to.

We have to use kellyburg for marching because we play lots of high notes and the bits on our tubas arent strong enough to hold metal. I understand the basics of partials and embouchure, i just dont like the blatty harsh sound i get when playing low tones.

Wrap the throat of the Kellyburg with a single layer of golfer's lead tape. It will stabilize the mouthpiece. And that said, and considering what you've told me about the horns, try a Kelly 18 the same way. I have two. Both wrapped with a single layer of the golfer's lead tape, for outdoor use.

[NewSousa2010]

I know you said "no money," and your dad is a "do it yourself or at school kind of guy," but, the Kellyberg is a huge mouthpiece for someone starting on tuba. The 20K has great resonance by itself. Will you dad consider popping @$50 for a Conn 7b Helleberg (the shallower one)? This is slightly smaller in diameter and slightly shallower than the Kellyberg, and should help you center pitches and get on with developing your technique better without overblowing or risking the "smile" instead of proper firming your embouchure at the corners and learning proper breath support. It's different on a tuba, as you have to do it yourself from your diaphram and intercostals, as there is less resistance, as you've found out, than with a bari sax mouthpiece. Then as you progress in your technique, you can consider going back to a mouthpiece the size of the Kellyberg after a year or so if you want to.

We have to use kellyburg for marching because we play lots of high notes and the bits on our tubas arent strong enough to hold metal. I understand the basics of partials and embouchure, i just dont like the blatty harsh sound i get when playing low tones.

Wrap the throat of the Kellyburg with a single layer of golfer's lead tape. It will stabilize the mouthpiece. And that said, and considering what you've told me about the horns, try a Kelly 18 the same way. I have two. Both wrapped with a single layer of the golfer's lead tape, for outdoor use.

just curious, could you explain exactly what the tape does to stabilize the mouthpiece? I will upload a picture of my mouthpiece

[NewSousa2010]

Sounds like a worthless teacher if he she is more concerned about the durability of the mouth piece over sound quality.

Ouch, that's pretty harsh. Plastic mouthpieces are cheaper (for a band director strapped for funds) and because they are lighter less likely to cause worn out bits and necks to swing out of position or fall out. There have been several discussions about the sound of plastic vs metal (and types of metal) with many here agreeing that the difference is small enough for other factors such as comfort and durability to tip the scale in their favor, at least for outdoor gigs. A pretty respected pro here not only uses a plastic mouthpiece, but has recently sung the praises of plastic sousaphones. Many of us have decried the band directors who let their kids beat up and totally trash their instruments, only to replace them every couple of years. (Ever seen a metal mouthpiece after it's hit the hot asphalt a bunch of times?) Without knowing more about the situation than our OP has told us, I'm not ready to pass judgement on the teacher, and that's coming from a band director, sousaphone player, and mouthpiece salesman!

Is there another mouthpiece that i should purchase for field use? It has to be plastic and purple so my band director doesn't hound me for not looking uniform.

[iiipopes]

Just curious, could you explain exactly what the tape does to stabilize the mouthpiece? I will upload a picture of my mouthpiece

Don't worry about uploading a picture of your Kellyberg. We all know what they are. The throat of the mouthpiece takes the most sonic stress, as the air is compressing as it goes through the throat before decompressing in the backbore and the physics of playing transition from the bernoulli principle of getting an embouchure to buzz to static wave theory with nodes and antinodes that set up the resonances we call pitch. In a conventional brass mouthpiece, this is not noticed because the pressures are so low that the inert brass or stainless steel is really not affected that much, if at all. But with plastics, including the lexan of the Kelly having less mass, the actual mouthpiece can vibrate more, which can set up false resonances that can come out of the horn as the blattyness you describe. It did for me, also. The extra mass of the lead tape around the throat damps the vibrations of the mouthpiece at this critical point, so it does not resonate improperly.

Don't go overboard. When trying this out, I thought if a little is good, a lot might be great, so I put another thin ring of lead tape, trimmed carefully, under the rim of my Kelly 18. All that did was damp response and made the mouthpiece hard to play -- took more air and effort. So I took that back off.

As far as plastic or other composite materials mouthpieces, the only one I would use would be the Kelly, and I prefer the 18 on a 20K instead of a Kellyberg, because the more rounded bowl cup of the 18 tends to produce more overtones which help the large bell throat 20K project better. The Maxx is too soft and has no definition to the tone. The DEG Astro nylon is a favorite among some players, probably because it was the first, and you play what you get used to. But the combination nylon cup with nickel shank caused a "whangy" tone for me.

Try a purple Kelly 18 with the ring of lead tape added, and don't overblow. The 20K was made for marching band, and it does the job very, very well indeed.

[NewSousa2010]

Just curious, could you explain exactly what the tape does to stabilize the mouthpiece? I will upload a picture of my mouthpiece

Don't worry about uploading a picture of your Kellyberg. We all know what they are. The throat of the mouthpiece takes the most sonic stress, as the air is compressing as it goes through the throat before decompressing in the backbore and the physics of playing transition from the bernoulli principle of getting an embouchure to buzz to static wave theory with nodes and antinodes that set up the resonances we call pitch. In a conventional brass mouthpiece, this is not noticed because the pressures are so low that the inert brass or stainless steel is really not affected that much, if at all. But with plastics, including the lexan of the Kelly having less mass, the actual mouthpiece can vibrate more, which can set up false resonances that can come out of the horn as the blattyness you describe. It did for me, also. The extra mass of the lead tape around the throat damps the vibrations of the mouthpiece at this critical point, so it does not resonate improperly.

Don't go overboard. When trying this out, I thought if a little is good, a lot might be great, so I put another thin ring of lead tape, trimmed carefully, under the rim of my Kelly 18. All that did was damp response and made the mouthpiece hard to play -- took more air and effort. So I took that back off.

As far as plastic or other composite materials mouthpieces, the only one I would use would be the Kelly, and I prefer the 18 on a 20K instead of a Kellyberg, because the more rounded bowl cup of the 18 tends to produce more overtones which help the large bell throat 20K project better. The Maxx is too soft and has no definition to the tone. The DEG Astro nylon is a favorite among some players, probably because it was the first, and you play what you get used to. But the combination nylon cup with nickel shank caused a "whangy" tone for me.

Try a purple Kelly 18 with the ring of lead tape added, and don't overblow. The 20K was made for marching band, and it does the job very, very well indeed.

Okay i will try it!

[Chobbie]

I have a Melton 18 that is cerakoted (ceramic elektro platin)in purple. It feels good. Ill post some pictures later. A rather interesting mouth piece.

@ Mike Finn. Yes it was harsh. I shouldn't post at three am. P.s. I'm still digging the mfh5 on my 186

[NewSousa2010]

I have a Melton 18 that is cerakoted (ceramic elektro platin)in purple. It feels good. Ill post some pictures later. A rather interesting mouth piece.

@ Mike Finn. Yes it was harsh. I shouldn't post at three am. P.s. I'm still digging the mfh5 on my 186

post it on this thread im curious!

[Chobbie]

Phone image


Edit : its A 24aw. The one in black is an 18