I bought a tuba...I think!

[TubaNewba]

I went to a great music store today, and the brass guy put me into a couple of lightly used trombone mouthpieces (one bass, one treble) for a great price. He said try them both, and he'd refund the one that didn't work.

Brought 'em home and neither fit. I guess I'm going to have to break down and take in the tuba.

D

[Donn]

A trombone mouthpiece is never going to sound like much.

[Kevin Hendrick]

Looks like a BBb Amati ABB-223 from here. I own one of these and it's a great player for such a tiny horn.

http://www.amatiinstruments.com/tuba/abb_223g.php

Edit
On a second look I see one difference from the ABB-223: Mine and the one in the Hollwerth catalog have a "folded" third valve circuit. That could be an earlier model perhaps?

The bottom bow ferrules have the same sort of barrel shape, and Amati was certainly responsible for a bunch of stencil horns.

And on third look it is missing one of the loops in the main bugle so I agree on Eb ... maybe an AEB-211?
http://www.amatiinstruments.com/tuba/aeb_211.php

Looks like an AEB-211 to me, too (and the dimensions match).

[TubaNewba]

If it won't go in, then you have a small Eb shank. There are a couple options in that size - Denis Wick, Doug Elliott - but that will be time and money. Or swap in a replacement receiver that takes standard shank mouthpieces, which will also be time and money but it's a one-time fix.

Anyone have a ballpark price of what swapping in a replacement receiver should cost?

D

[bigtubby]

If it won't go in, then you have a small Eb shank. There are a couple options in that size - Denis Wick, Doug Elliott - but that will be time and money. Or swap in a replacement receiver that takes standard shank mouthpieces, which will also be time and money but it's a one-time fix.

Anyone have a ballpark price of what swapping in a replacement receiver should cost?

D

You said that neither of the trombone mp's fit - does the bass t-bone mp have a bigger shank than the other one? If so you might have an American shank tuba receiver already.

But if you need to replace it I wouldn't expect much over fifty bucks or so.

[TubaNewba]

You said that neither of the trombone mp's fit - does the bass t-bone mp have a bigger shank than the other one? If so you might have an American shank tuba receiver already.

The difference was less than .5mm.

Looks like an (Amati) AEB-211 to me, too (and the dimensions match).

I emailed Amati - they say they never made a tuba with a "Richmond" engraving.

I also emailed KELLY (plastic) Mouthpieces. Jim Kelly responded that my receiver-size of 13mm requires one of their European-shank Euphonium mouthpieces. http://www.kellymouthpieces.com/kmeuphonium/index.asp" target="_blank

David

[PMeuph]

I owned a LaMonte BBb tuba last year that looks a lot like yours in certain ways. It originally came with a medium euphonium shank receiver on it. I brought it to the repair shop and the tech realized there was no actual receiver but only a sleeve on the end of the leadpipe. He was able to remove the sleeve, adjust the length of the leadpipe and put on a used yamaha receiver for about $85 CAD.

Finding a medium shank tuba mouthpiece is really not economical. On the other hand there are plenty of inexpensive mouthpieces with a standard shank.

Your mileage will certainly vary.

[Dan Schultz]

..... I emailed Amati - they say they never made a tuba with a "Richmond" engraving....

Amati would not have any record of the name if the engraving was applied AFTER the horn left the factory.

[Untersatz]

Amati would not have any record of the name if the engraving was applied AFTER the horn left the factory.

That's some pretty intricate engraving for it not to have been applied at the factory.......

Richmond Tuba.jpg

[Dan Schultz]

.... That's some pretty intricate engraving for it not to have been applied at the factory.......

Think so?

[TubaNewba]

I owned a LaMonte BBb tuba last year that looks a lot like yours in certain ways. It originally came with a medium euphonium shank receiver on it. I brought it to the repair shop and the tech realized there was no actual receiver but only a sleeve on the end of the leadpipe. He was able to remove the sleeve, adjust the length of the leadpipe and put on a used yamaha receiver for about $85 CAD.

Finding a medium shank tuba mouthpiece is really not economical. On the other hand there are plenty of inexpensive mouthpieces with a standard shank.

Your mileage will certainly vary.

That's interesting and helpful! I went into the store today with the tuba, and the manager of the brass department found a used, Giardinelli trombone mouthpiece - small shank that fit, and gave me a great price. He could get some pretty low notes with it. I know it's not ideal, but I don't want to spend a lot of money on custom work. I don't think I mentioned that I spent $50 on this horn! I may also order a KELLY plastic mouthpiece as shown in my previous link.

On the brighter side, he thinks it's from the turn of the last century, and says it's a decent instrument. I asked him if it was a student or beginner instrument because of the 3 valves, and he told me that they didn't make student instruments back then...and this would be "the best instrument they made". I'm not sure on what he based that statement, but it made me feel good. He also said that a logo would be "stamped" on at the factory, and that this one looks to be hand-engraved.

Amati would not have any record of the name if the engraving was applied AFTER the horn left the factory.

Yes! I thought of that later, Tinker. I wonder why the Amati guy didn't make that point?

I took out the valves and removed the bottom caps, and the springs fell out. I'm pretty sure they aren't supposed to look like this!

[Donn]

If someone out there knows Toronto, a recommendation to a knowledgeable tuba shop might be helpful.

[bigtubby]

Amati would not have any record of the name if the engraving was applied AFTER the horn left the factory.

That's some pretty intricate engraving for it not to have been applied at the factory.......

Richmond Tuba.jpg

The anti-stencil.

One of the baritones I asked you about tubing for Dan is an interesting old Pepper that I bought simply because I have a Pepper Eb helicon. On its bell is a very nicely engraved wreath encircling a very empty polished area of brass:


The only reason that I think it was built by Pepper is on the reverse side of the valve cluster:


IMHO this horn was meant to be a stencil and somehow found its way into the world without being sullied by some music store's trade name.

OP's repairman's claim that his would be turn of the 19th/20th Century doesn't feel right. This instrument looks much too utilitarian/modern to be from that era.

The stamp on my bari's #2 valve opens another can of worms: According to Langwill's Index, "1910 upon the establishment of 'J.W. Pepper & Son', all actual manufacture ceased, thereafter trading as importer only.". Now I need to see if I can find the manufacturer of my helicon.

[alfredr]

I'll throw out an opinion, or suggestion, or whatever, and of course, it's worth what you pay for it. Early 20th century and low pitch would go together. The other thing is that the main tuning slide being before the first valve looks like my Grand Rapids (York) euphonium and I am of the understanding that they did that on other horns (tubas) also.

So.... Colonel Mustard in the library with the candlestick

Or maybe a low pitch E flat tuba, York stencil, early 20th century.

Look on Horn-u-copia.net also.

alfredr (but at least you didn't pay for it)

[J.c. Sherman]

It's an Eb; have your shop order the generic large-shank Euph receiver and have it installed; there are still a wealth of mouthpieces made for that size receiver and you won't have to re-engineer the leadpipe. Chances are, though, you have a very, very petite Eb which will be a "charmer" more than a player.

[Donn]

But measures out as 13½ foot Eb. Unless he wants to play it in its upper range like a French horn, he's going to need a mouthpiece that works in the tuba range. I don't know, the story doesn't really add up for me, hence my thought to get with someone who knows tubas in the Toronto area for a second opinion.

[TubaNewba]

It's an Eb; have your shop order the generic large-shank Euph receiver and have it installed; there are still a wealth of mouthpieces made for that size receiver and you won't have to re-engineer the leadpipe. Chances are, though, you have a very, very petite Eb which will be a "charmer" more than a player.

I don't understand. Wouldn't installing a generic receiver be considered re-engineering the leadpipe? Sorry, I obviously don't know the terminology too well, so could you elaborate? If I was going to order a new receiver, couldn't I get an actual tuba receiver?

But measures out as 13½ foot Eb. Unless he wants to play it in its upper range like a French horn, he's going to need a mouthpiece that works in the tuba range. I don't know, the story doesn't really add up for me, hence my thought to get with someone who knows tubas in the Toronto area for a second opinion.

Good advice, Donn...I'm going to try to track down just such a person.

D

[Donn]

Wouldn't installing a generic receiver be considered re-engineering the leadpipe?

The receiver is basically a sleeve that connects the mouthpiece shank to the leadpipe. There's lots more to that, mostly not too relevant here - maybe it's worth noting that the occasional tuba's receiver is simply made from the leadpipe, but in most they're separate.

So if you're going to get a new, larger receiver that connects a larger mouthpiece shank to your leadpipe, does your leadpipe also need to get bigger? Yes, or at least maybe. All these little details have a disproportionate effect on how the tuba plays. I believe that's what he's talking about.

Depending on how you got that 13mm measurement, it might not be a big problem.

[J.c. Sherman]

Wouldn't installing a generic receiver be considered re-engineering the leadpipe?

The receiver is basically a sleeve that connects the mouthpiece shank to the leadpipe. There's lots more to that, mostly not too relevant here - maybe it's worth noting that the occasional tuba's receiver is simply made from the leadpipe, but in most they're separate.

So if you're going to get a new, larger receiver that connects a larger mouthpiece shank to your leadpipe, does your leadpipe also need to get bigger? Yes, or at least maybe. All these little details have a disproportionate effect on how the tuba plays. I believe that's what he's talking about.

Depending on how you got that 13mm measurement, it might not be a big problem.

If the leadpipe runs through the leadpipe, you'd have to make a custom receiver to accommodate the cut leadpipe... and indeed it may change it; however, you have to take into account the paucity of tuba mouthpieces with tenor trombone shanks Skillfully done, you can match a receiver to the pipe which would indeed make the playing impact minimal; however, we're not (sorry to say) likely dealing with a Strad here...

J.c.S.

[Gongadin]

I may have an affordable Eb tuba mouthpiece around here somewhere if you can't find one.