Why don't you own a 5/4 or 6/4?

[Chadtuba]

Simply put, I can't afford one. Ideally, I would own a Holton 345 BBb, a Yamaha YBB-621 (or 103), and my Besson 983 that I already own. I lieu of winning the lottery my 983 is a fairly versatile horn and since that's what I already own I guess that's what it'll have to be.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Personally, where I am in my life right now I don't want one. I have a huge 6/4 York & Sons, but right now I need to worry about me being better. So I use a nice, 4/4, German CC horn. The thing about a BAT is that it will
1.) Not make you a better player.
2.) Overpower almost every quintet you play with.
3.) Sound far too monstrous for most every solo piece you'll find.
So for the amateur or aspiring professional, a huge tuba is impractical and costly.

[Bandmaster]

Personally, where I am in my life right now I don't want one. I have a huge 6/4 York & Sons, but right now I need to worry about me being better. So I use a nice, 4/4, German CC horn. The thing about a BAT is that it will
1.) Not make you a better player.
2.) Overpower almost every quintet you play with.
3.) Sound far too monstrous for most every solo piece you'll find.
So for the amateur or aspiring professional, a huge tuba is impractical and costly.

This may sound like a dumb question, but how amateur players really have to deal with reasons 2 and 3? Do amateurs really have the opportunity to play in quintets and perform solos a lot? I know I don't.... In the last 5 years I have only played with small ensembles (quintets) twice and performed a duet (solo) once. But I have performed in 120 plus concerts with concert bands.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Personally, where I am in my life right now I don't want one. I have a huge 6/4 York & Sons, but right now I need to worry about me being better. So I use a nice, 4/4, German CC horn. The thing about a BAT is that it will
1.) Not make you a better player.
2.) Overpower almost every quintet you play with.
3.) Sound far too monstrous for most every solo piece you'll find.
So for the amateur or aspiring professional, a huge tuba is impractical and costly.

This may sound like a dumb question, but how amateur players really have to deal with reasons 2 and 3? Do amateurs really have the opportunity to play in quintets and perform solos a lot? I know I don't.... In the last 5 years I have only played with small ensembles (quintets) twice and performed a duet (solo) once. But I have performed in 120 plus concerts with concert bands.

I'm not done with college, so I was going more for the "aspiring professional" outlook on not having a BAT. That's why I mentioned the solo thing (recitals). But I know a lot of amateurs who do quintet/small ensemble work and, quite frankly, BATs suck in a group that small. I guess it just depends on what you like to do. Anyway, you can't really do too many solos easily on any CC tuba. There's a reason they make Eb and F tubas. As a side note, does anyone know whether or not Jake played the Yorks when he did quintet stuff with other CSO brass members? I feel like if someone could've pulled that off, it's him.

[GC]

A lot of the issue about BATs overpowering other quintet members has to do with whether the other players are strong or wimpy. I've played with folks where a 1/2-size Eb was almost too strong and others where a 25J was fine.

[Steve Marcus]

does anyone know whether or not Jake played the Yorks when he did quintet stuff with other CSO brass members? I feel like if someone could've pulled that off, it's him.

Gene P. plays the York in quintet settings.

[GC]

And CSO brass players are not known for being afraid to open up. There's not much need to worry about overbalancing there.

[Donn]

So, pardon my ignorance - regarding the "overpowering" issue, I'm getting the impression that some of us regard a 6/4 tuba as inherently louder. Is that true?

I'm not asking "does there exist some large tuba whose owner is capable of playing it very loud", I'm sure there is. But for example, suitability for quintet - is that really about excessive dynamic level, or would it tend to be more about matching tonal color? Doesn't a 4/4 tuba have a similar potential to be far out of balance with a brass quintet, just with a different tonal spectrum?

If one tuba is inherently louder than another, is that likely because one of them is 4/4 and the other is 5/4, or one of them is 5/4 and the other is 6/4?

(Pardon me for using such a crude term as "loud." I tried to use "dynamic level" where it fit, but it's a little cumbersome.)

[GC]

To me, in general, yes. The larger the horn, the more volume. A 6/4 tuba will produce depth of sound and more volume than a 4/4 for the same effort. Your mileage may vary.

That said, the loudest I ever heard any one play was through a Miraphone 188, but he was an exceptional player. I'd like to have heard him on the CSO Yorks.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

That said, the loudest I ever heard any one play was through a Miraphone 188, but he was an exceptional player. I'd like to have heard him on the CSO Yorks.

The loudest tuba I've ever heard/played was actually a modified 184 with an extra long bell and 186 bores. It was MONSTROUS. It was one of the best tubas I've ever played. Anyway, the thing was on the smaller end of a 3/4 size. Very interesting indeed. Supposedly, Roger Bobo had it made as a prototype for Miraphone and it never got made.

[Tuba Guy]

So, pardon my ignorance - regarding the "overpowering" issue, I'm getting the impression that some of us regard a 6/4 tuba as inherently louder. Is that true?

Well...sort of. However, in terms of pure "loudness", as measured with a decibel meter, no. I sometimes play around with the meter to try to get a high score, and where the big Bb's (a gigantic Martin, a big Cerveny 701 Kaiser, and a pretty large Besson Bb) on the Bb in the staff top out around 115-118dB, my smaller Getzen CB50 has managed to top 120dB a few times. Again, this isn't always the prettiest sound and the larger horns sound much more like a big warm sleeping bag. But in terms of sheer volume, the smaller horn allows me to play (empirically) "louder"

[Ben]

I find a larger horn allows me to play louder with good/consistent tone.

(lots of other opinions that I'll keep to myself)

[FreeBandMusic]

How many do you play in quintet? We did maybe 20 or 30 every year, for several years. We did a LOTS of weddings and receptions, store openings, art shows, church services, all sorts of things.

I had a larger Cervany Bb; it nice a big sound, great community band. I spent five years holding back, playing pp and still covering the group. Worst, I could really play with any expression, playing with excitement, even something like a peppy walking bass part.

For our quintet, most of our gigs were were set in small venues, not huge concert halls. Worse, half of the gigs were so also background music for some event. It was just too much.

I found a smaller 4 valve Eb Martin; now I could balance the group with ease, punching on the jazz stuff like everyone in the group, bouncing along with the walking bass.

Now I have a Miraphone 186; it works fine for Concert band and quintet.

[Radar]

This may sound like a dumb question, but how amateur players really have to deal with reasons 2 and 3? Do amateurs really have the opportunity to play in quintets and perform solos a lot? I know I don't.... In the last 5 years I have only played with small ensembles (quintets) twice and performed a duet (solo) once. But I have performed in 120 plus concerts with concert bands.

Many amateurs (and semi-pros, and pros as well) play in small ensembles in churches on a fairly regular basis. There is a lot of opportunity for church playing in most cities.

[The Bone Ranger]

Why don't you own a 5/4 or 6/4?

It would be a luxury for me. I get called for freelance work in small orchestras, brass quintets, and bands in a small city, and infrequently compared to my gigs on trombone, so the chances of me needing a horn of that size to make money are slim. My Rudy 3/4 CC will cover most of those things.

Also, adding another horn to the my practice routine (2 tenors, 1 bass and tuba) will complicate an already complicated situation. I need to be in good shape ASAP if I haven't picked up a horn for a while, so the more familiar I am with each horn, the better. Since there's not many gigs that the Rudy won't cut, more face time = more accuracy.

The big horns sure are fun in the practice room or on the right gig, but for me, a horn would have to come along for an absolute steal, and then be sitting in it's box for long stretches at a time, as it's well down the pecking order in usability for me.

Andrew (still looking at garage sales for that $500 Holton 6/4)

[Donn]

Even I have played a quintet show or two, as a sub. (And not in church.) I suppose it was on a 5/4 tuba, too - older BBb 190, which I eventually sold - but the tuba still plays with that quintet as far as I know.

[Z-Tuba Dude]

It seems to me that nobody really "needs" a 6/4 horn. There is nothing that you would play on a BAT that can not be done on a smaller horn (witness: Roger Bobo, the Los Angeles Phil, and his Miraphone 184).

As was mentioned, measured in sheer decibels, the BATs are no more effective than a smaller horn. The 6/4 horn does produce a "broad" tone quality that you can not get out of a smaller horn, so the difference is not in the loudness, but the "fatness" of sound.

That "fatness" is not welcomed everywhere.

[swillafew]

I look for a horn that I can fit in a car, fit through a door without picking up a new dent, and lift in a hard case without killing myself. Getting the horn home in the car is fundamental.

[ScottM]

I am a 3/4 size person so a bat doesn't make sense for me. My 4/4 is almost more than I want to handle.
ScottM
184-5u
PT20P

[bort]

I have a Rudy 4/4... which I guess is almost a 5/4? Actually, it's been damaged or in the shop the entire time I've had it, so I haven't really had a chance to evaluate it's perceived size.

But I really don't care about that stuff either. It's big enough, but not too big. Works for me!