Asymmetrical Upper Bow on 1292

[PaulMaybery]

Roger Lewis (then at WWBW) once explained to me several years ago that that particular design technology does come from organ building, especially when longer pipes needed to be folded. Belief from organ acousticians is that it (the asymetrical bend) somewhat enhances the depth of sound of the fundamental. In the context of a tuba, it is intended to help a 4/4 horn respond a bit more like a 5/4 or 6/4.

I'm sure Roger could explain it more clearly and with a few more interesting details.

[iiipopes]

Looks to me like the bend was started early to stay out of the way of the bell taper, and then the curve and taper adjusted for the outside bend of the bow accordingly, as if it were modified from an earlier model or prototype.

[imperialbari]

A symmetrical bow would have taken the 2nd vertical tubing and the secondary bottom bow further away from the main plane of this tuba, if that secondary bottom bow should keep its present radius.

[Dan Schultz]

Looks to me like the bend was started early to stay out of the way of the bell taper, and then the curve and taper adjusted for the outside bend of the bow accordingly, as if it were modified from an earlier model or prototype.

+1. My sentiments exactly. Those so-called 'nodal points' are moving targets, anyway.

[Matt Walters]

The asymmetrical bow is to change acoustics. Someone who has more time on their hands can dig into finding the paper on acoustics about this. The "Slokar" trombones used this in the main tuning slide starting 15 maybe 20 years ago. Their propaganda stated " Reduction of disturbance echoes". This also reminds me of some performance exhaust systems. The great Walter Lawson once told me "you have to have Irregularities in the taper or the response will be dull." He then showed me where in the French Horn branch he had a sudden flair.

[Bill Troiano]

Thanks for all of the responses, everyone. Good to hear from you, Matt.

Sooooo, does the 1291CC and 1293CC also have this asymmetrical upper bow? And, the BB's do not?

[Musical_Eagle]

Thanks for all of the responses, everyone. Good to hear from you, Matt.

Sooooo, does the 1291CC and 1293CC also have this asymmetrical upper bow? And, the BB's do not?

Yes, the 1291 CC and the 1293 CC have the asymmetrical bow. And the BBb tubas do not have this asymmetrical bow.

Hope this helps

[J.Harris]

Hey there. My 291 Bruckner CC also has this feature and I believe the Petrouschka does as well. I'm sure to be corrected if I'm wrong.

[iiipopes]

The asymmetrical bow is to change acoustics. Someone who has more time on their hands can dig into finding the paper on acoustics about this. The "Slokar" trombones used this in the main tuning slide starting 15 maybe 20 years ago. Their propaganda stated " Reduction of disturbance echoes". This also reminds me of some performance exhaust systems. The great Walter Lawson once told me "you have to have Irregularities in the taper or the response will be dull." He then showed me where in the French Horn branch he had a sudden flair.

Oh, to be a good enough tuba player where that matters in my playing!

On a practical note (pun intended) - like Schilke's experiments, does this positively affect partials tuning, especially the notorious Miraphone flat 5th partials?

[Donn]

In principle, it seems to me that if you're looking for what makes a better or worse tuba, the detailed "conical" profile would have to rank pretty high on the list, but ... is there really a flare in there, or is it just a radius change where it bends? (I mean, I get that a bend has some effect on the profile, but that gets complicated.)

It's interesting that they didn't see any need for this innovation in the BBb model.

[iiipopes]

The asymmetrical bow is to change acoustics. Someone who has more time on their hands can dig into finding the paper on acoustics about this. The "Slokar" trombones used this in the main tuning slide starting 15 maybe 20 years ago. Their propaganda stated " Reduction of disturbance echoes". This also reminds me of some performance exhaust systems. The great Walter Lawson once told me "you have to have Irregularities in the taper or the response will be dull." He then showed me where in the French Horn branch he had a sudden flair.

Oh, to be a good enough tuba player where that matters in my playing!

On a practical note (pun intended) - like Schilke's experiments, does this positively affect partials tuning, especially the notorious Miraphone flat 5th partials?

As acoustically insightful as Renold Schilke represented himself to be, where has been the chaotic push by trumpeters into the doors of that firm to purchase Schilke products (namely, everyday-use Bb and C trumpets) ?

bloke "Again, I've done a lot of alterations to upper bows of large tubas (again, via taped-down curved cardboard inserts) and have observed (until changes became absurd) very little change in pitch, tone or response...but - then again - I'm probably not a sensitive enough player to be able to be able to make such observations."

One of my friends had a B1 in the late '70's, and it was the best damn playing trumpet I have ever played. That includes all the garden-variety Bachs and clones and the new Monette that my current band's trumpet player has, and others including the LA Benges and Callichios that are popular with the show players south of where I live. But for the fact I play tuba and not trumpet, I would own a Schilke trumpet. The problems are by those players, teachers and professors who are prejudiced, like the former trumpet professor of the regional university, who thankfully is not there anymore, who would not take on a trumpet student if that player did not automatically purchase a Bach C trumpet and a 1 1/2 C mouthpiece to be a Bud Herseth clone, and that in spite of the fact that even Bud Herseth himself chose a Schilke for his Bb trumpet.

[Dan Schultz]

It must be a great concept. Says so right here!
http://www.amazon.com/Roy-Benson-RBTR20 ... on+trumpet