Mahler Symphonies

[cambrook]

I think the euphonium is not the right sound for M7, I heard a wonderful performance in Zurich a few years ago with the Tonhalle orchestra conducted by David Zinman. The instrument used was what Klaus referred to in another post as "B-Bariton", played brilliantly by Thomas Rüedi.
https://www.thomasruedi.ch" target="_blank"

[barry grrr-ero]

"What composer would tolerate an instrumentalist suddenly and completely changing timbre on his own whim (swapping to F within a piece) without specific instructions?"

Really? What about when a tuba player plays the 'Frere Jacques round in minor' in the third movement of the first symphony on a basstuba, then uses a kontrabass tuba for the rest of it? You're opposed to that? How about this: in the soft, slow 'moonlit' passage located in the middle of the first movement of M7, I switched to my Besson 3+1 eefer because I wanted that passage to sound very, very soft (the rest was played on a prototype 188). For me, it was a question of dynamics and control, not timbre. Was I wrong to do that?

I don't know, maybe I've got this wrong, but I really think most composers - assuming they were even around to conduct or hear a performance of one of their works - would have a lot more on their minds than whether the tuba player was cheating or not.

[eupher61]

I can't point to any now, but I've seen lists that specify what instrument for what excerpt. Maybe I'm thinking of the Lyric list from several years ago? It seems like I've seen it for a European vacancy, too.
That said, I'm starting to fall away from a strict inheritance of bass vs contrabass. No special reason aside from sheer orneriness, I guess. I am simply siding with the thought of the composer had better things to worry about.

And, *** hijack alert***, I've recently been studying the Hindemith sonata. Analyzing like I should have a long time ago. Reading some dissertation online, it's pointed out that the autograph MS says bass tuba on the cover, but the music says Tuba.
It was written after Hindemith had lived in the US, though in Switzerland at the time, when CC and BBb were certainly the most prominent instruments in use. That author essentially said whichever worths for the performer, but really push the contra.

[UDELBR]

For me, it was a question of dynamics and control, not timbre.

Surely that can be achieved through more time in the practice room...?

[Jay Bertolet]

This all is a very similar discussion to the one that occurs when folks debate whether a specific piece (usually an opera) requires cimbasso or tuba or ophicleide. Historically, these composers' works were published and when they were, the publisher usually put a moniker on the part that they felt would lead to as much sales of the work as possible. Over the years, as orchestral traditions (and instrumentation) changed, reprints would incorporate these difference as best they could. Lots of confusion has been created from that process alone.

I personally prefer to research premieres of works and any specific directions that the composer may have left. Even so, I'm not above switching instruments for a given situation. In the last 2 seasons, I've performed Brahms 2 twice. Once I used a bass tuba, the second time I used a contrabass. I thought both worked so I stand by the final product. I think too often, players turn off their common sense and try to develop rules to make the selection process mindless. Employing your good musical judgment and a modicum of common sense still seems to me to be the best path.

[UDELBR]

How about this analogy: what if a concertmaster decided to play (say...) the Scheherazade solo on a viola instead of on his main axe, the violin? It's undoubtedly the wrong instrument, and it's a similar range difference to our F / CC discussion.

[jsmn4vu]

How about this analogy: what if a concertmaster decided to play (say...) the Scheherazade solo on a viola instead of on his main axe, the violin? It's undoubtedly the wrong instrument, and it's a similar range difference to our F / CC discussion.

Straw man!

[barry grrr-ero]

Unclebeer, don't call me Shurely!

The orchestra I played M7 in - and all of the Mahler symphonies! - was neither the CSO or a good conservatory orchestra. Instead, it was a dedicated community orchestra with only a few paid 'ringers' ever involved. Nearly all of the people, myself included, had full time jobs and, in many cases, children to raise (I've skipped that part). There wasn't a whole lot of time to go 'woodshed' for most of us. But more to the point, we performed in a dry sounding modern auditorium, and the conductor liked the loud parts to be REALLY loud. Therefore, I played my prototype 188 with a pretty large mouthpiece, just to keep up with the trombones and everyone else.

If I wanted to play the passage in question very softly and perfectly in-tune on the CC tuba, I would have been forced to switch to a smaller mouthpiece at that point. Is that greatly different than using the higher key tuba (just C to Eb, mind you) while using a mouthpiece of a similar size in the process? . . .

. . regardless, it worked and nobody said, "hey, you're cheating!".