starting a "British"-style brass band

[Bill Troiano]

Hi Joe, I've been playing in the Austin Brass Band since I moved here. They already had 5 tubas and took me to balance out the section. We have 2 Eb's and an F playing the Eb part. We have 3 CC's playing the Bb part. I just fell back on some skills I learned years ago and employed tenor clef to read the Bb treble clef parts on CC. I still mess up the technical stuff, but I practice it ( after I mess it up more than a few times.)

We don't have a uniform. We wear all black or sometimes, white shirts with black bottoms.

As far as the idea of starting a brass ensemble, it might be easier from the standpoint of reading the parts and already having the correct instruments for the ensemble. But, there is far much more music written for brass band than there is for brass ensemble.

When I was a band director on LI, I was asked to conduct a HS brass ensemble. We auditioned kids from all over the county to participate. We rehearsed weekly at my school and did a number of nice performances for the 7 years we existed. Finding music that wasn't extremely difficult began to become a problem after about 5 years. In year 7, I decided to switch to a brass band format. We wouldn't have the correct instrumentation, but we had a Yamaha Eb cornet donated to us, and that was probably the most important instrument for us to include in the brass band. I figured we would teach the horns and everybody else to transpose the parts where f parts and BC parts weren't included as alternates. Some arrangements did include alternate parts. We ended up having financial issues and we never got off the ground in year 7, so the brass band format never materialized.

I would say if you have mature, advanced players and the proper instruments, you'll have much more music to choose from as a brass band rather than as a brass ensemble.

[Levaix]

Brass choir would probably be "easier" to start from a technical standpoint, but perhaps might miss out on some of the interest a traditional brass band might evoke. Instrumentation is often fairly varied in pieces written for brass choir, which can be a good thing and a bad thing (eg. a piece with no euphonium parts). Also I think you're right about a brass choir being easier to do without a conductor.

Brass band without a conductor... Try and imagine rehearsing a typical community wind band without someone on the podium, and that's about where you'd be.

[MikeW]

I believe the op was contemplating an all-pro outfit ?

There is at least one all-pro brass ensemble that is led by their concert-master, Robert Venables, and not (usually) by a conductor (except, I believe, that they hire reputable conductors for recording sessions)

Hannaford Street Silver Band. Ca 21-piece professional brass band, formed in 1983 in Toronto by trumpeters Robert Sutherland and Raymond Tizzard, modelled after 19th-century British brass bands. The band first performed in the 1983 Canada Day celebration at Harbourfront.

The brass instruments played in the band (with the exception of the trombones and percussion) are in the saxhorn family and include cornets, a flugelhorn, tenor and baritone horns, a euphonium, tubas, trombones, timpani, and percussion. It normally functions without a conductor but on occasion has hired guest conductors, including Morley Calvert, Stephen Chenette, Wayne Jeffrey, James McKay, Bramwell Tovey, and English brass music composer Edward Gregson. Its repertoire includes works from the 16th to the 20th centuries, including works by Canadian composers. Many arrangements are by Gordon Langford or Howard Snell or by band members.

http://hssb.ca/personnel/

[MaryAnn]

We have had a traditional British style brass band here for quite a few years (Old Pueblo Brass Band: http://www.oldpueblobrassband.com/" target="_blank) I've played the Eb tuba part in it and also euphonium. On the Eb part I played both F and CC, ended up using the CC. The director pestered me interminably to get a 3+1 Eb because she wanted everything authentic.

Uniforms....color-matched cummerbunds, and bow ties, and stand covers. For special events, occasional costume-like stuff.

I have not yet seen mention of the ripieno cornet part.....

There is a mouthpiece adapter available for altos that takes a (french) horn mouthpiece. Most hornists would be more willing to play an alto with the adapter.

[imperialbari]

As I haven’t tried them: I have no idea!

However I tend to wonder that they have been copied after the Besson 700-series and not after the Sovereign model.

According to Denis Wick the Sovereign was prototyped from two given parameters: the Besson bass trombone bell and the Besson 0.468" trumpet piston set. The 700-model appears using the same two elements. The difference is that the Sovereign has a long leadpipe that runs behind the piston block to enter the 3rd piston. The main tuning slide sits after the valve block and has a bow with a fairly wide diameter.

As the horn parts do not stay away from 3rd partial written D and C#, a trigger facility would be most useful. The bad habit of a constant long pull of the 3rd slide is bound to cause clashes with the lower cornets, the baritones, the euphs, and the trombones, when unison B naturals and F#’s (both concert pitch) happen.

Klaus

[bearphonium]

Very educational thread. Bloke, our local group started about 15 years ago. They wear khakis and polos, although they have been seen in black slacks, button down shirts with brass-themed ties, and have a conductor. They reflect the larger ensemble size, although usually muster 3 alto horns (all of them local, good horn players) and 3 tubas (varying compliance with the Eb/BBb, depending on who is playing). Their current conductor (regional university NOT from Eugene bandmaster) is paid, and does arrangements. Their founding conductor did about 40% of their arrangements. I believe the conductor is paid.

This group does want to cross the pond this summer and enter a competition.

Ally "who really thinks the style of music is cool, but isn't to that level of playing...yet" House

[swillafew]

I have only sat in these groups for a handful of times. British style are assembled with a spirit akin to a DCI group. Competition is central to the mission. The Tennessee musicians in the OP had an impulse to work without a conductor (I love the sentiment), and forgetting about that would be a first step in the process.

[Teubonium]

Don't overlook trumpet players as a source for Alto/Tenor Horn players.

In our experience there seems to be more of them willing to adapt to the instrument.

Many French Hornists tend to poo-poo the instrument and want nothing to do with it.

[Lectron]

Go here, Joe: http://www.nabba.org/

By-the-way... there is absolutely NOTHING written about tuba players having to read treble clef parts! Typically... there are two Eb and two BBb tubas in a brass band but there is nothing in the rules that says those parts cannot be played on CC and F tubas if desired. Having bass clef tuba parts really simplifies getting the job done.

Let the arguments begin!

Actually....I believe it is written in the British nationals rules, Eb and Bb (wind) instruments only

[Rick F]

About three years ago The Orchid City Brass Band was formed here in West Palm Beach, FL area. It's an all-pro group with area performers, band directors, college professors of music. Principal euphonium player is Carlyle Weber who was principal euph at the U.S. Army Field Band for 23 years. The two people who started the group are Dr. David Gibble (Dir) and Dr. Michael O'Connor (1st baritone). One tubist studied with Harvey Phillips for five years, another got his master's in performance with Sam Pilafian at AZ. They are making enough money to pay expenses... which isn't too bad considering they're still only in their third year.

Below is a link to a video of them playing Shostakovich's "Festive Overture" (arr. Peter Kitson). They didn't have the greatest microphone setup, but it's still sounds pretty good IMO. I was in attendance and it sounded better in person.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR-Te78q8_w

[Wyvern]

Go here, Joe: http://www.nabba.org/

By-the-way... there is absolutely NOTHING written about tuba players having to read treble clef parts! Typically... there are two Eb and two BBb tubas in a brass band but there is nothing in the rules that says those parts cannot be played on CC and F tubas if desired. Having bass clef tuba parts really simplifies getting the job done.

Let the arguments begin!

Actually....I believe it is written in the British nationals rules, Eb and Bb (wind) instruments only

I believe it is the case that ONLY Eb and BBb tubas are allowed in British competition rules. However it does not say anything about what form those should take. I know of one customer who even played BBb Mighty Midget travel tuba in national brass band contest!

For me listening to brass bands is a bit like eating chocolate. In moderation a real pleasure, but can't take too much in one sitting.

[Steve Marcus]

I believe it is the case that ONLY Eb and BBb tubas are allowed in British competition rules. However it does not say anything about what form those should take. I know of one customer who even played BBb Mighty Midget travel tuba in national brass band contest!

Sousaphones? Seriously, the 48K can sound like an organ...and its projection...

[Wyvern]

Sousaphones? Seriously, the 48K can sound like an organ...and its projection...

I have never heard of one used, but can't see why not. Just imagine the bass with a couple 48K providing the bottom!

[yaques]

I play in the Orchid City Brass Band mentioned above. The band purchased Packer (Chinese line) alto horns and baritones with the money from our first few gigs. The trumpet players all went out and dug up, borrowed, or even bought cornets. Even the Eb soprano cornet player got himself a horn. The alto horn players are still playing the instruments owned by the band. They complain about the valves but not enough to go out an buy alto horns of their own. Tuba section is made up of BBb's on the BBb parts, and CC's on the Eb parts. We do not rehearse on a regular schedule. We will have about 4-5 Sunday evening rehearsals leading up to a concert.

[MSchott]

I admire the skill it takes to perform British Brass Band music well.

I don't "get"/appreciate the whole competitive aspect.

After listening to quite a bit of it, including some bands local to me as well as some of the top UK groups, I've decided I also don't enjoy some of the musical results (that screaming Eb soprano at the top, approach some bands take to vibrato, lots of parallel lines, etc.)

I reserve the right to change my mind on this at any time without notice.

I do, however, very much enjoy the sound of a full symphonic brass section/ensemble...

A few points from some who has played in a Brass Band for the last 19 years.

1) The soprano cornet is the top of the band but should not be "screaming". More on this below.

2) Vibrato is far more common in British brass bands than in the US. But proper vibrato makes for a very warm blended sound.

3) You need to see a brass band as a choir. That's where the parallel lines come in. But in reality they are not that common.

4) The beauty of a Brass Band is the versatility. We can play beautiful slow chorals, tough, technical contest music, awesome British marches, transcriptions, very jazzy music and more.

[MSchott]

The "alto horns" thing (on the front end) totally escaped me.
I just don't know how many of the horn hosses around here would be willing to acquire a really nice alto horn, and stick that funny mouthpiece up to their chops without some promise of a financial payback.
I'm continuing to think more that starting with a brass choir is the way to go.

That may be a good way to start but I don't see how that will evolve into a true 30 piece brass band. The reality is you will need sponsorships and grant money. That's how you pay a director, buy music, rent rehearsal space and buy horns.

Our brass band (Motor City Brass Band) started with a lot of Salvation Army members. So we had players with tenor horns, cornets and baritones right away. 19 years later, we own a full percussion section, an Eb bass, 6-7 cornets, some Eb horns, a Baritone and a trailer to haul the percussion when we travel to gigs.

But the key is having a professionally quality organization. It takes dedication, time and effort to make this happen. It's not easy. Assembling the dedicated board members is the key.

[imperialbari]

Not all the board members have to be musicians. A good fundraiser dedicated to the band's purpose may be a good thing.

Thinking in terms of target markets like churches and malls maybe also will show some options to get funding.

Klaus

[Lectron]

Not all the board members have to be musicians. A good fundraiser dedicated to the band's purpose may be a good thing.

Thinking in terms of target markets like churches and malls maybe also will show some options to get funding.

Klaus

^^ That

[imperialbari]

As seen from the true brass band player’s side:

[Carroll]

There is a brass band on the other end of the state in our seventh year of existence. A retired businessman retired, moved to Crossville, and organized the group. We draw musicians from Knoxville (75 miles), Cookeville (30 miles), Nashville (90 miles), and our conductor from Williamsburg, KY (120 miles). We rehearse once a month and play four to five 2 hour concerts a year. It is really a pretty good band. We will be playing the SERTEC conference in Knoxville with Kelly Thomas on euphonium.

I say...go for it!