high school horns?

[bisontuba]

6 weeks into the school year, I have several instruments in line right now from a "poor" school. The underprivileged youths at the school beat the backs of the valve casing with mouthpieces as to not have to play in band so they could goof around instead. The first tuba was no longer worth repairing as there is so much damage. That one tuba would consume more than the school's small entire yearly repair budget. It will salvaged out to be used for parts.

I'm sure their overwhelmed band teacher's threat of "lowered grades" will worry these darlings.

Getting reimbursement from the absentee parents will, I'm sure, be swift.

Times have changed...sigh..

PS -It does remind me of doing quintet school shows where if you are in wealthy suburban district at Q/A time, a question might be: ' Is your trumpet a Bach Strad?' -whereas in an inner city school at Q/A times, a question might be: 'How much does your horn cost?'
Different times.....

[bisontuba]

Times have changed...sigh..

yes...but you consider this "good" whereas I consider it "bad", and you deny that this ( https://www.google.com/search?q=LBJ+great+society ) is one of the primary causes, where as you will point to it as one of the primary solutions.

I won't say more specifically about that, but it should be obvious to all (who have a perspective that reaches back prior to the beginning of all of that) that ever since these programs were put in place (hour-after-hour/day-after-day/week-after-week/year-after-year/decade-after-decade) society has greatly deteriorated, and only those in the very top of government (as government has expanded in scope and size many-fold), and those at the very top of the private sector have benefited. Nearly everyone else has suffered, and there can no longer be any such thing (particularly in population-dense areas) of telling one's children to "go outside and play".

Most people here know the very nice and capable tuba professor at the U of Memphis. Yesterday, a Memphis cop was killed in a very "nice-looking" subdivision not far at all from his home. This sort of Sh!t simply did not happen prior to [what is linked to, above], which - imho - was intentionally put in place (along with many other things that have been put in place) to create chaos...and we now certainly have chaos.

bloke "have a teaching certificate, have never used it, will never use it, and pray every day for those who use theirs"

Happy Indigenous People's Day!

[Donn]

Here we go again. For those who subscribe to the societal-collapse religion, it's time to start work on the rubber tuba, to keep band programs going that would otherwise have to give up on brass tubas.

[toobagrowl]

Were I a band director (and I could just see THAT lasting at least a week ), I might very well strongly consider a set of King sousaphones and an extra set of (old-style) 2341 upright bells (or not) to match...and - perhaps - 4-valve (or not) versions of the sousaphones (no "concert" tubas). I MIGHT (probably would) even consider FIBERGLASS BODIES on the King sousaphones. (Who needs all of those dents, all of that polishing, and all of that repair expense?)

So, the old-style detachable 2341 bells fit the 2350 sousas? Never thought about that before, but that is a great idea Conn-Selmer should resurrect the old-style detachable 2341 bell, and market it as a "concert bell" for the 2350 sousa. They would sell a ton of them, and it would be a good cost-savings/compromise for band programs They already market the King "Fiberbrass" sousa (brass bell, fiberglass body) as a good "compromise" sousa. So why not market the 2350C ("C" for concert) sousa that can also be used for indoor/concert playing, using the detachable upright bell? It would be an $8,000 sousaphone that includes both front and upright bells -- for the field and concert hall Or they could just resurrect the upright bell on it's own for use on the 2350 for indoor concert use. Great idea bloke

[Donn]

Maybe there isn't any real reason why concerts require an upright bell. Trombones are OK in concerts. Make sure the sousaphones are far enough back that the percussion can hear them clearly.

Does the King sousaphone collect water in as many awkward places as my 1230?

[Donn]

I have a theory that tuba players prefer upright bells because they (themselves) can hear the tuba better.

That's a very good reason, but something you have to figure out if you're going to play sousaphone outdoors (I suppose the case for sousaphones is built on the assumption that they're already purchased for outdoor programs.) I wish I'd learned it earlier, myself, or rather I wish I hadn't learned it the way I did, seeing a video of a well attended performance where I was blasting my fool head off and sounding like crap. That was an outdoor concert - as a fairly high percentage of mine have been, and there's often a tent - a concert, but maybe the worst possible situation for an upright bell.

[toobagrowl]

It really depends on the acoustics and the director you are playing under. But in my experience, upright bell tubas tend to sound better indoors, while front bell tubas/sousa sound better outdoors. The sound from an upright bell indoors bounces off the rafters and walls, and the sound "blossoms" better than a front bell. The front bell tends to be a little too directional indoors, with less "blossom" to the sound. Conversely, front bells sound better outdoors because the sound projects well and hits the audience better. Upright bells don't do as well outdoors, unless you are pretty close to the audience. Otherwise, the sound gets "lost in the sky" outdoors with an upright bell.
Of course, there are exceptions to both cases, but that has been my general experience.

A good sousaphone (like the 2350) offered with both front and upright bells would be a great solution for bands who may have a limited budget, but want the "best of both worlds" -- front-bell sousa = marching/outdoor playing; upright-bell/raincatcher sousa (instead of buying a whole concert tuba)= concert band/indoor playing.

[MikeMason]

Things are not equally as bad as they seem to be in the Memphis area everywhere.We have the highest standard of living in history.the poorest among us have convenience and luxury our grandparents could not have imagined.Airconditioning,Internet,cell phones,super cheap as-a-percentage-of income food,clothing,and consumer goods,longer lifespans,I could go on. There will always be problems,but life is really pretty good. Now let me decide on a craft beer from the 24 choices at my local saloon,even in puritanical Alabama. Cheers!

[J.c. Sherman]

It hasn't been mentioned, and some folks will poopoo it, but the Jupiter 4/4 Bb is a nice option. The parts are there, the price , sound and playing are great. Downsides are a problem in the early 2000s with valve plating (now rectified), an exposed 3rd bow that can gets dents easily, but cheap to replace, and an unconventionally short 1st slide... it allows a nice Eb 124 and a perfect C in the staff. The 2nd slide... might be 1 cent flat.

When I've borrowed one for jazz, the guys always love it. I'd have one myself if I didn't have a couple bad-a$$ BBbs already

J.c.S.

[roweenie]

As a new-to-recording-bell-tubas person who has (and mentioned FAR too often in threads recently) fallen in love with a recording comp. Eb that I'm using in my sit-down gigs with my jazz band brethren), I have been teaching myself (since - yes - I cannot hear the sound of it as well) to not OVER-play when playing that instrument.

Actually, I have found that with a recording bell tuba, it is just as important to learn how to UNDER-play. Oftentimes, what might be thought a normal dynamic for an upright bell needs to be backed off even more. For me, the beauty is more sound for less effort.

In any case, it is indeed very easy to "overdo" it with a bell front tuba.

To TEACH myself how loud it ACTUALLY is, I toot on it at home with the bell rotated from the normal 12 o'clock position over to the 9 o'clock position - which roughly approximates the position of an upright bell.

This is sound advice. I also find playing into a wall with a recording bell (or a bass saxophone, for that matter) gives me a pretty good idea of how the folks out front hear what I'm playing. This is also good advice for folks who own only a recording bell tuba, and are forced to "approximate" an upright bell indoors.

I'm quite certain that I'm probably the 20,000th-something recording bell tuba player to have discovered this phenomenon.

Are there that many on the planet? If so, that is a scary thought.

[roweenie]

A good sousaphone (like the 2350) offered with both front and upright bells would be a great solution for bands who may have a limited budget, but want the "best of both worlds" -- front-bell sousa = marching/outdoor playing; upright-bell/raincatcher sousa (instead of buying a whole concert tuba)= concert band/indoor playing.

I was already doing this 35 years ago.

The first tuba I personally owned, which I bought in high school, was a King 2341 (upon recommendation from Don Butterfield, my teacher at the time), and we had King sousaphones in the band room. When I discovered that the bells were interchangeable, I would bring the bell only to school and play it fitted into the sousaphone.

The only problem with this arrangement was, IIRC, that it would play a little sharp this way. So, I would pull the tuning slide out more than usual. I might have also used an extra bit, but I just can't remember.

[J.c. Sherman]

It hasn't been mentioned, and some folks will poopoo it, but the Jupiter 4/4 Bb is a nice option. The parts are there, the price , sound and playing are great. Downsides are a problem in the early 2000s with valve plating (now rectified), an exposed 3rd bow that can gets dents easily, but cheap to replace, and an unconventionally short 1st slide... it allows a nice Eb 124 and a perfect C in the staff. The 2nd slide... might be 1 cent flat.

When I've borrowed one for jazz, the guys always love it. I'd have one myself if I didn't have a couple bad-a$$ BBbs already

J.c.S.

Those tubas do some weird $h!t above the staff, but (OK...we're discussing "high school horns") they're OK in the (likely maximum) two-octave range that they would likely be played...but *seriously*, J.c....for "about the same price as a King 2341"...??

bloke "The issue with that complete line has been that they are Chinese-made/Chinese-quality instruments (stop arms fabricated of pot metal - on the rotary valve instruments ) priced at near-western-made-instrument price points."

I've not had any screaming problems above the staff, and they are holding up well in the schools around here, save for the bow I mentioned... and we sell them for a LOT less than the Kings... and they're just down the street (and not made as well as they used to be...).

[vespa50sp]

Old thread, but I'd stick with the Yamaha's or go to King if switching. Well build, lots of parts available and very repairable, even if some intonation issues. Better to go with a reliable tank if lots of hands are going to touch the horn learning how to play.

Students can look at purchasing a St. Petersburg or whatever when they are ready to commit to buying a horn. That will be a more personal decision.

[J.c. Sherman]

oh...OK...dealership.

I sell neither...other than "used".

I don't sell either either… I'm an independent contractor, and have no stake in it one way or the other. A dealer would prefer to move the more expensive one.

J.c.S.