Julliard or Eastman?

[Tom]

This kid is getting everybody all worked up over graduate schools when he hasn't even started his undergrad! Juilliard or Eastman won't even be a possibility for 4-5 YEARS!!!

By the way...I encourage the original poster to do a lot of research on grad schools (Juilliard and Eastman, etc.) when the time comes...don't rely on all these tubenet postings.

My only bit of information is that openings (especially for Juilliard) do not occur on a regular basis and that one cannot simply "go there."

[Charlie Goodman]

Yeah, I would be interested to hear where you got in for undergrad, and what about that makes you so sure that you need to be choosing between these two schools in particular. A lot can happen in your four/five years of undergrad, and a lot can fail to happen. I'd worry about it when it gets a little closer.

[Mark]

Someone give me advice on how I should negotiate my Chicago Symphony contract when I win the job.....

Bloke pointed out that some folks might not want the Philly job because of quality of life issues. Chicago is one large city that I really wouldn't mind living in. There are bad parts of town and winter can be bad, but overall I think it would be a good place to live. However, NEVER take the boat tour on the Chicago River!

[scottw]

.[/quote]
Bloke pointed out that some folks might not want the Philly job because of quality of life issues.

Hey, now, don't knock Philly on quality of life issues! If ever there is a city which doesn't get reapect, it's Philadelphia, and it's just wrong. Politics is particularly nasty, yes, but the cultural, musical, dining scene is first rate. There are even places within the city limits where orchestra musicians live and many more places close at hand in the suburbs of Pa. and South Jersey. Plus, the Phila. Orch. is first-rate.

[Mark]

Hey, now, don't knock Philly on quality of life issues!

I didn't Bloke did.

[ahowle]

I agree with Tom in that (endless, circuitous logic aside) you shouldn't listen to advice given by people on a public forum such as this, especially subjective opinions. Even any objective data that you may acquire in this thread is neither necessarily authoritative nor necessarily reliable. Also, it seems like most people didn't even read the thread. It seems like you're pretty set on where you're going for undergrad, and that is good. You're doing the same thing as I am, working on an Ed Degree, while I have no intentions of being a band director, and will most likely major in performance in grad school.

I believe that, for people such as you and I, having an ed degree is the way to go, because you will be much more likely to get a job as a tuba teacher. It's not impossible to get a job as a college tuba professor with nothing but performance degrees, however it is much less likely.

Mainly, I believe you should focus on your undergraduate studies now, and worry about grad school when the time comes. I definitely had no clue where I was going to go for grad school when I was in high school. You shouldn't be worrying about that right now. Just focus on playing the tuba, getting better at the tuba, pass all your music ed classes, and then when the time comes, worry about what comes after undergrad. So much can and will change between now and then that it's downright naïve to be thinking about grad school at this point in your life.

Good luck in the rest of high school and your upcoming undergraduate studies.

[Carroll]

I really have to echo:

If you don't really want to be a band director, don't get the music education degree in the first place.

As a high school band director near a college, I get lots of student teachers in my program. I used to give them all the same advice: get an undergrad education degree, then get a graduate degree in performance. After working with many kids who want to be players, I have changed my tune. If you do not want to teach - and want it really bad - stay away from my band! I only want passionate music educators in front of band kids. There are enough problems in music education without half-hearted, fall back position teachers. Go after what you really want. Do not treat my profession as a backup plan.

That said, my best friend got a B.A and a M.A. in euphonium performance. Now he is teaching adjunct 6th grade beginning band for substitute pay. He probably wishes he had followed my advice (before it changed).

[Stefan]

Just because a person may have used music education as a "fallback" degree, doesn't make them a bad, or unpassionate band director.

Stefan

[Uncle Buck]

Using music education as a fallback degree doesn't necessarily result in an unhappy, bad band director, but it's often a factor.

It's OK to use anything as a fallback, as long as you have some interest and passion in the fallback. I believe it's more important for teaching than for some other careers, though. I've worked in several different professions (not my original plan), and in my experience, teaching school when your heart isn't in it is much worse than working many other careers under similar circumstances.

No one who has never been a band director really knows how difficult, and usually thankless, the job is. I've served as a religious missionary for two years in a hostile area, completed a masters in tuba performance, completed law school and worked on law review, and passed the bar exam. None of those things were even in the same league, in terms of difficulty, as being a band director.

My advice is, before you pursue a music education degree, make sure you really want the career that goes with it.

Music education is not the only fallback for someone who dreams of being a performer. Consider getting a non-music degree, which might actually leave you more time to practice during college than a music ed degree, that will give you a different fallback career. I'm not aware of any professional auditions where they care whether you took counterpoint, music literature and theory.

If your dream is to be a pro player, a music degree isn't a prerequisite. Follow your dream (for some reason that phrase always reminds me of Cartman), but get a fallback degree in a field where you think you also can be happy. Don't just get a music ed degree because it is what you think aspiring performers are "supposed" to do.

[Tabor]

Hickstownburgville Community College is my top recommendation. Those others I have never heard about and they might just not be up to the level of Hickstownburgville's Community College Marching Band.

[adam0408]

Back to the topic at hand? okay.... julliard or eastman. You are basically asking the question of mercedes vs. BMW. The brand doesnt matter at all if you cant play your instrument. And if you come out of either of these schools at a mediocre level, shame on you becuase you had an extremely good chance to be phenomenal. My point: if you go to one of these schools you better be ready to practice your **s off, becuase youre not gonna get any respect unless you do. ( no different than any other school, although you may come in contact with less stuck up __________s than at juilliard or eastman.)

My point again: these schools come with an expectation attached. If you dont attain this, then you will be thrown by the wayside. No mercy. It doesnt matter where you get your degree, it matters how well you manipulate that tuba thing to play the way you want.