Check out my new (old) Alex 163 CC

[bububassboner]

The people at Alexander are very friendly and can help you with all this. The leadpipe isn't that spendy but if you just want an adapter they also makes those and can be had for cheap.

But a new pipe is only gonna be a few hundred buck plus the install price from your local guy. I've played a few older Alex tubas that were restored at the factory and they are killer. It'll be money well spent.

[Ted Cox]

Alexander began using serial numbers in 1975. They are stamped on the top plate of the second valve - very small and four numbers. I doubt your Alex has a number in that location. My guess would be a horn from the 1960's, based on the bracing. You'll most likely never know for sure - but it really doesn't matter. How the bells were made also changed in 1975. Prior to 1975, Alex bells had a gusset - a V shaped spot on the top bow side running from the edge of the bell almost all the way to the top bow. I had Alexander insert an adapter for my 1964 Alex to accept a "normal" mouthpiece. Currently I'm using a Stoffer-Geib American shank and love the result. Very clear and powerful. I use the same mouthpiece on my Alex F. Your Alex looks amazing. If the lead pipe is solid, don't replace it. Adding a 5th valve isn't really a problem. You can order the parts from Alexander. My 1964 Alex cost $495 new, with a hard case and mouthpiece (which I still have). Additional valves back then were $45 - you'll pay a bit more than that now. Jeff Baker of the Dallas Opera recently added a 5th valve to his Alex. You might contact him about the logistics and cost of doing that addition.
Ted Cox

[arpthark]

My Alex has the gusset, so it is definitely pre-1975 based on your information, Ted. No serial where you described. The horn was described to me as a late 1960s model. Thanks for the info and suggestions, everyone.

[MackBrass]

Congrats on the Alex. If your interested i do have a brand new gold brass Alex leadpipe and modern receiver. The leadpipe is straight amd needs to be fulled and bent. Bought it for another alex project about 2 years ago but didnt need it. Also, i have updated linkages if your interested. Cant tell what you have on the horn.

As to the paddles, i like to add silver half dollars to extend the paddle, i think they look great and they also give better contact.

As to adding the 5th valve, do it. Before i did mine, rhe pitch was similar to yours, but after the mods i dont touch a slide or use an alternate fingering. Call me and i can give more details. Dont be affraid to make changes to the horn as keeping it authentic is BS if that means lousy pitch and alternate fingerings. I dont have patience for alternate fingerings anymore and if there is something that can be done to improve it then i am all about it.

Tom

[bububassboner]

I'll bite..... Do you know how the new pipes differ than vintage outside the receiver size?

The front end of the pipe is a bit smaller so it actually has some taper to it. A lot of the pitch issues were from the stupid big leadpipe. You give up maybe 2% in horsepower for a 20% improvement of intonation. Combine the new pipe/dogleg and the older, smaller bell flare and you get a killer horn imho.

Played a pre ww2 164 BBb with a new leadpipe and holy hell that was a good horn.

[arpthark]

Is just the dogleg and leadpipe taper different in newer Alexanders or is there a different taper throughout all the branches?

[bububassboner]

Some of the really really old Alexander's were different but from what I've seen those have all been pre ww2. They were all hand made so the new parts won't be exactly plug and play but you can ask for them to be shipped filled to fit your needs.

[Doug Elliott]

Regarding my Alex mouthpiece shanks -
I pretty much end up customizing a shank taper for each Alex. I don't mind doing that and it doesn't cost any extra.

It's pretty unusual to find two that are the same.

[tubamuphone]

Before you modify the receiver/pipe, you might try a standard European shank mouthpiece and see if it fits. That's what I use on my 1968 Alex 163. It goes all the way in, I mean ALL the way in (all of the shank is in the horn), but after owning that horn for 16+ years, I've found that the further the mouthpiece goes in, the better the horn plays.

If a euro shank mouthpiece goes in and doesn't wiggle around, you'll want Doug Elliott's A shank if you go that route (that was my first Alex mouthpiece purchase). That will fit well and the shank of the mouthpiece will not be completely swallowed. If a euro shank wiggles around a lot, you'll want his A+ shank.

I bought a new pipe a few years ago, had it bent and installed, it was fine. I had the old pipe put back on earlier this year and it's considerably better (for me). There's a ton of variables there though...

The 5th valve addition on mine was a success, with the old pipe on there, it plays just as well, if not better than it did in its original condition.

Obviously, every horn is unique and what works on one may or may not work on another. Beautiful horn, congrats on the purchase!

Jeff

[arpthark]

Before you modify the receiver/pipe, you might try a standard European shank mouthpiece and see if it fits. That's what I use on my 1968 Alex 163. It goes all the way in, I mean ALL the way in (all of the shank is in the horn), but after owning that horn for 16+ years, I've found that the further the mouthpiece goes in, the better the horn plays.

If a euro shank mouthpiece goes in and doesn't wiggle around, you'll want Doug Elliott's A shank if you go that route (that was my first Alex mouthpiece purchase). That will fit well and the shank of the mouthpiece will not be completely swallowed. If a euro shank wiggles around a lot, you'll want his A+ shank.

I bought a new pipe a few years ago, had it bent and installed, it was fine. I had the old pipe put back on earlier this year and it's considerably better (for me). There's a ton of variables there though...

The 5th valve addition on mine was a success, with the old pipe on there, it plays just as well, if not better than it did in its original condition.

Obviously, every horn is unique and what works on one may or may not work on another. Beautiful horn, congrats on the purchase!

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

I've mentioned earlier in this thread that Doug's very large A+ shank just wiggles around in the horn. It is a huge receiver! I measured it at something like .629". My adapter works great and I don't think I'll be searching for a new mouthpiece or leadpipe for this tuba until (if) I decide to put a fifth valve on it.

Blake

[tubamuphone]

Whoops! Sorry for the less than useful info. Good lord, I can't imagine a receiver swallowing an A+. I wonder if the guys in the shop had one too many beers the day they put that pipe on the tuba?!

Glad you have a receiver adapter, should you need any parts, Alexander is easy to work with. It takes a while to get the parts, but they've come through for me multiple times (on multiple horns).

JB

[arpthark]

I wonder if the guys in the shop had one too many beers the day they put that pipe on the tuba?!

My thoughts exactly! I've emailed Alexander with some pics of the instrument on the off-chance they can date it. I'm hoping the extra-extra-large receiver will provide some answers in that regard. Much thanks to everyone for the comments, insight and answers so far.

[arpthark]

Just a bump as I've heard back from Hans Herrmann at Alexander:

Thank you for sending the pictures. The levers and mechanics are not original and the second valve shows no serial number at the second valve casing top.
As I look at the kind of making the design, the instrument has been made sometime in the early sixties.
The condition looks very good.

Best greetings,

Hans Herrmann

So, early 1960s is good enough ballpark for me. I play this damn thing every day and it kicks my butt more often than not.

[arpthark]

Took this in the practice room the other day:

Alex 156 F vs. Alex 163 CC:



Interesting that these two horns are from roughly the same era, yet the F is stamped "MADE IN W. GERMANY" on the receiver and the CC is not.