D.C. Military Martin tubas

[Paul Scott]

Interesting thread! A few tidbits/thoughts. The Marine Band also used Martin tubas for a time (and even carried some type of wooden playing stands for them). I have also seen a side-action Martin (detachable bell) fitted with the paddle on the main slide. The tuning paddle might have backfired in terms of the perception of some players. A Marine Band tubist of that era commented to me "those things were so out of tune you had to use a tuning lever while you played!". The fact that many younger players at that time were beginning to use more European styled rotary-valve instruments may have caused these instruments to fall out of favor. The tuning characteristics of the European horns were/are quite different than the Martins which might have furthered the notion that Martins were "out of tune" (something I disagree with). And the fact that they switched to Rudy Meinls afterward may be telling in that regard.

Isn't there also a story about several of these Navy Martins going down with a ship? I'm quite sure there is but I cannot recall the details.

[Frank Byrne]

The Marine Band absolutely had Martin tubas in the 1950s and into the early 1960s. I tried one of those - detachable bell and upright valves -- and thought it was outstanding. I also owned one front action but with only 3 valves, but the sound was great.

[Sam Gnagey]

Of all of the US-made 6/4 Bb tubas (and there weren't really that many, were there?), I (' just my opinion ) judge those Martin's as playing the best in-tune.

I'm only approaching sixty years of age (so my personal awareness does not go back into the 1950's, and have only ~barely~ been aware of "various types of tubas" for the past 45 years or so) but the only bands where I ever personally saw big Martin's being used (and at that time, I didn't even know they were Martin-made) were (indeed) USN bands (the D.C. band, specifically).

...and no, unfortunately I too did (years ago, armed with even more ignorance than I possess today) attempt to make one of those into a C tuba. That outing (as Matt describes with someone's else experience) completely cured me of "cut-down" projects (with the exception of Buescher, which - arguably - are "great C tubas hiding within fairly-good Bb tubas").

In the past, I recall an unnamed-here-and-former dealer boasting on his website about generously offering a retired Navy bandsmen one of his shiny-new ____________ tubas in exchange for that retired bandsman's super-nice 6/4 / 4-piston / front-action / fixed-upright-bell Martin. At that time, I didn't view that as very "nice", but (having seen - here on TubeNet - how many people getting up in years are looking for smaller tubas that also weigh less) I no longer view that transaction in that way.

I wonder where that cut down CC is now?

[roweenie]

I'm thinking that (at least, according to the album cover) Barney Mallon of the original Dukes of Dixieland (Assuntos family era) owned a 4-valve front-action fixed upright bell one of those, and recorded a stylized version of "Asleep in the Deep" using that tuba with them on the Audio Fidelity label - ending with a "double-low" F. Mr. Mallon was one of those old-school "bass/tuba" players, and I believe string bass (as with many players) was his "primary" of the two.



I communicated with him in the early days of e-mail. I remember that he lived in Rochester, NY, and I'm sure that he has passed away.

I've mentioned this before in other threads...

https://youtu.be/L2kVMswRBhc

I know it's a low-res picture, but I don't see the characteristic mouthpipe bits.

The wrap looks like a Holton, to me....

[Rick Denney]

I know it's a low-res picture, but I don't see the characteristic mouthpipe bits.

The wrap looks like a Holton, to me....

I can almost see the bits, but angle would be important.

The outer branches may look a bit Holtonish, but the valve branches are nothing like a 345. I see a lower loop on the first-valve branch, which a 345 doesn't have, and the fourth valve is significantly different. If the valves are on a diagonal, I'd be getting a stronger Martin aura, but I can't really tell for sure in the picture.

Rick "trying to recall if Martin ever used the vertical valve lineup" Denney

[roweenie]

I know it's a low-res picture, but I don't see the characteristic mouthpipe bits.

The wrap looks like a Holton, to me....

I can almost see the bits, but angle would be important.

The outer branches may look a bit Holtonish, but the valve branches are nothing like a 345. I see a lower loop on the first-valve branch, which a 345 doesn't have, and the fourth valve is significantly different. If the valves are on a diagonal, I'd be getting a stronger Martin aura, but I can't really tell for sure in the picture.

Rick "trying to recall if Martin ever used the vertical valve lineup" Denney

The 345 is not the only 6/4 model Holton ever made.

The mouthpipe curve, the unusually short 3rd branch, and that unusual curly-cue tubing for the 3rd valve circuit are characteristic of some older Holtons I've seen.







Also, the side-action Martins had their valvesets mounted high up in the bugle, where Holtons had them characteristically quite "low-slung".

[Lee Stofer]

I saw my first Martin at the Armed Forces School of Music in Norfolk, VA in 1979. It had a one-piece upright bell and 4 top pistons, with noisy valve guides, as I remember. But, my classmate who used this Navy horn had a blast playing it in concert band.

One of my clients has related to me that when he joined the US Army Band (Pershings's Own) in 1971, they had several Martins and Holtons, which they referred to as the "Thunder Tubs." The Band had apparently just recently bought some Meinl-Weston tubas, which he said were rather heavy for their size, feeling like they were made from sheet steel as opposed to the Martins and Holtons.

[kingrob76]

Paul: Mine, even with a horribly crumpled bell, plays quite well in tune. I'm very happy with it.

The horns going down with the ship might have been this: Leonard Jung (sort of synonymous with the US Navy Band and these Martins) had a ship sink out from under him during WWII and his tuba went with it. This was before his appointment to the DC Band and these Martins.

I'm can't say if this is the source of the story you've heard, but it seems like it could be...

Lenny said the best horn he ever had - bar none - was on that ship when it sank, and now rests under about 4 miles of water.