Scherzer Sander CC - where is it from?

[Lee Stofer]

Sander tubas were made pre-WWI in Kaiserslautern, in southwestern Germany. I have worked on a
similar-looking Sander tuba, owned by the tubist in a prominent southern Symphony. He bought it
while studying with Arnold Jacobs in the latter 1960's. Your tuba is marked, Scherzer, then Inh. Sander,
Augsburg. Augsburg is a suburb of Munich, as is Geretsreid, where Wenzel Meinl made the Melton/Meinl-Weston
tubas. Looking at the Scherzer, Inhaber(owner, or made by) Sander, it would be easy to imagine that they sourced some
parts from Wenzel Meinl across town, and that sort of business cooperation was not unusual. The Sander CC
I worked on was a fine instrument, although short, very tightly wrapped, and not particularly easy to work on.
It would have originally been equipped with S-linkage, and was most likely made in the late 1950's or '60's.

[anotherjtm2]

Thank you, Lee.

I had taken that mark to be "Jnh" (maybe Jonah?). Maybe "Inh" is the more helpful interpretation.

It is a little short, so my next question is where I should look for tuning slide parts. Is it likely that MW will have parts to match (for fit, not style) the crook and tubing?

[anotherjtm2]

The large thumbring, braces and ferrules are EXACTLY like the ones on my M-W 2155R. There are a few models of M-W tubas that had the same features.

They look SIMILAR to the ones on Rudi tubas, but not exactly the same. The large round backplate for the thumbring is slightly oval on Rudi tubas. The thumbring backplate is completely round on this Scherzer, like on some M-W tubas. The etched lines in the ferrules on Rudi tubas are slightly closer to the edges, whereas on this Scherzer tuba, they are not as close to the edges -- just like some models of Meinl-Weston tubas. And the 'fancy' bracing with round flanges/feet are classic Geretsried-era/rotary Meinl-Weston

Does the squared 4th valve loop look typical of Meinl-Weston of that age? And whether or not it does, what could the purpose be for not rounding the ends?

[toobagrowl]

Does the squared 4th valve loop look typical of Meinl-Weston of that age? And whether or not it does, what could the purpose be for not rounding the ends?

Mine has a very similar layout of the lower portion of the 4th valve circuit as yours. Are you talking about the tubing being out of round (ovaled), or are you talking about the actual curvature of the lower tubing?

Your tuba looks like it may have had past repair work done on it (besides the valve linkage). Keep in mind those Meinl-Weston parts were assembled by Scherzer/Sander.

[anotherjtm2]

Does the squared 4th valve loop look typical of Meinl-Weston of that age? And whether or not it does, what could the purpose be for not rounding the ends?

Mine has a very similar layout of the lower portion of the 4th valve circuit as yours. Are you talking about the tubing being out of round (ovaled), or are you talking about the actual curvature of the lower tubing?

Your tuba looks like it may have had past repair work done on it (besides the valve linkage). Keep in mind those Meinl-Weston parts were assembled by Scherzer/Sander.

I mean the curvature of the bends in the tubing; it looks more angular than I would expect, rather than a gentler bend. The tubing itself still has a circular cross section.

Yes, there are several spots where the 4th valve loop was soldered. No idea why; seems like a strange place to have an accident.

I had some correspondence with Baltimore Brass about their similar tuba. They believe that theirs has no MW parts (though maybe that's different from no Wenzel Meinl parts?), and that it's likely from the '50s. Mine says "made in W. Germany" on the receiver, which at least puts it between 1950 and 1990.

When did S-links and sharp bottom bow keels go out of style?